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#41 RichieC

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 01:37

QUOTE(RichieC @ Jan 20 2007, 20:33 ) View Post
It is certainly not a fake cap in my opinion Nack. Without even touching it, I can see it from here.

Judging from my experiences, the sweatband is correct for late 40s/early 50s mfg. The chinstrap is not one of those flimsy, paper thin ones that are on the fakes, and the visor has nice age patina and crazing also.

As Stewart wrote earlier, the only thing that does not seem right is the stamp. It could be a legit, but I think that more likely than not, it simply could have been added at one point in the past to increase the sale price by a few bucks.

Us gullible Westerners just LOVE date stamps and markings. tongue.gif Really....


...and BTW. The chinstrap buttons that are affixed with the prongs are a sign of late 40s/ 50s mfg also.


#42 Daredevil

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 01:41

i think the 1948 stamp is ok; it fits the age of the hat and I have seen others. The more common problem is rubbing away part of the '8' and making it into a '0' to fool some collectors into paying double for a 1940 NKVD cap rather than a postwar 1948 MGB cap.

#43 RichieC

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 01:53

QUOTE(Daredevil @ Jan 20 2007, 20:41 ) View Post
The more common problem is rubbing away part of the '8' and making it into a '0' to fool some collectors into paying double for a 1940 NKVD cap rather than a postwar 1948 MGB cap.



Right on Daredevil... I remember in "the beginning" that this was a common thing. There were so may pieces with real date/mfg stamps that "mysteriously" had the last digit or two crudely erased. Even worse, more than once I have seen a hunk of fabric missing from that same spot. I have a few pieces that possess that notable feature.

I'll dig them up and take a few images just for conversation's sake.

It is a pity though that nowadays, there is such a flood of 100% "fuflo" things out there, and that people are gobbling them up simply because it has a stamp (which is just as fake as the item it resides in)...





#44 Nack

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 06:31

As I stated at the beginning, I don't personally have authenticity iasues with the cap, as the seller is QUITE reputable smile.gif But, as to the stamp--who knows? Really tho, who cares? If its actually from 1948, cool. If its 1954, still cool. Its still a nice piece that looks fab with with the tunic beer.gif I'm just glad that no one thought it was totally fake.

In any event, I think its been an interesting discussion, which illustrates to others that, as with other things, "God is in the details." Thanks for participating in the fun smile.gif

#45 russiamilitaria

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 17:30

One more cap...

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#46 russiamilitaria

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 17:30

...

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#47 russiamilitaria

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 17:32

...

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#48 russiamilitaria

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 17:33

...

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#49 Lapa

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 19:49

Nack,

Somehow, I had previously missed this thread. Having a close and careful look at your NKVD cap, I must say that I am far from enthused with it. It has all the trademarks of local workshop production. Compare with the one RussiaMilitaria has just posted, the differences are glaring.

Would this cap come from a "reputable dealer" located in NJ?

Marc

Edited by Lapa, 08 September 2008 - 19:51 .


#50 Nack

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 20:10

QUOTE (Lapa @ Sep 8 2008, 15:49 ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Nack,

Somehow, I had previously missed this thread. Having a close and careful look at your NKVD cap, I must say that I am far from enthused with it. It has all the trademarks of local workshop production. Compare with the one RussiaMilitaria has just posted, the differences are glaring.

Would this cap come from a "reputable dealer" located in NJ?

Marc


Marc -- the cap indeed traveled from NJ, not Tenafly NJ though. There is very convincing wear both to the visor and sweatband. Are you of the opinion it was artificially aged?

~Nack

#51 russiamilitaria

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 20:14

QUOTE (Lapa @ Sep 8 2008, 23:49 ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Would this cap come from a "reputable dealer" located in NJ?


Hi! What?"reputable dealer" are you spoken about?

#52 Daredevil

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 21:00

well, since i am being talked about by an "expert" located in Russia (who seems to know a lot about everything; must be nice), who likes to declare this cap a repro, i feel i should respond..the cap was sold to Nack as real, but postwar, with a very questionable stamp...I do not really post here but since something i sold is being questioned by someone who has never had the cap in their hands, i felt the need to respond. The cap is NOT one of the current junkers being made, as detailed in the 'other' forum. It was sold years ago as a good postwar cap to use on display, is real (as others here have even stated), but probably had the stamp added to make it look war time.

The "reputable" guy in NJ.



#53 Nack

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 21:10

QUOTE (Daredevil @ Sep 8 2008, 17:00 ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
well, since i am being talked about by an "expert" located in Russia (who seems to know a lot about everything; must be nice), who likes to declare this cap a repro, i feel i should respond..the cap was sold to Nack as real, but postwar, with a very questionable stamp...I do not really post here but since something i sold is being questioned by someone who has never had the cap in their hands, i felt the need to respond. The cap is NOT one of the current junkers being made, as detailed in the 'other' forum. It was sold years ago as a good postwar cap to use on display, is real (as others here have even stated), but probably had the stamp added to make it look war time.

The "reputable" guy in NJ.


Yes -- the cap was sold to me as post-war, and as I stated in about every post, I wasn't concered about authenticity. I was, however, fishing to see what others thought of the date of the stamp. Ok, the stamp is wierd, I agree. But, the date looks like 1948, and it seems pointless to fake a stamp that isnt wartime (maybe though it was intended to be somewhat ambiguous so you could argue it is wartime, but now we are getting into the realm of a conspiracy theory...) .Anyway, the wear on the cap is rather genuine-looking, and considering we aren't talking about a marshal's cap or anything, it seems to me that this is a 40s'50s cap that maybe has a spurious stamp. In any event, it fits the part it was intended to play.

#54 Ed_Haynes

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 00:10

This sort of snarly tone we've seen here is a major reason why there are few uniforms posted here. Sad. Admittedly, they are a minefield, but the attitude of many collectors (who I won't further characterise) that "they know and no one else does but they'd never show any examples or any evidence" is, at best, off-putting. At worse, it is quite ungentlemanly, or worse.



#55 Rick Research

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 02:27

True, true. As but an illustrative example, here are two images of THE SAME CAP-- a KGB officer's wool visor cap dated 1954 updated with the M1955 cockade:

Attached File  KGB_officer_visor_1954_w_1955_cockade_by_IM_and_me.JPG   36.82KB   2 downloads

The upper image is crisp and sharp and clear-- and yet the colors are washed out almost air force sky blue and brown. The crappy blurry wiggly lower image at least gets the cactus green and blueberry blue real colors accurately.

So what does a SCAN of the one--without the other--actually "prove?"

I have NO idea why uniforms are so argumentative a specialty, but it does REALLY make a difference between IMAGES of items and actually having them IN HAND. beer.gif



#56 Nack

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 15:35

QUOTE (Lapa @ Sep 8 2008, 15:49 ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Nack,

Somehow, I had previously missed this thread. Having a close and careful look at your NKVD cap, I must say that I am far from enthused with it. It has all the trademarks of local workshop production. Compare with the one RussiaMilitaria has just posted, the differences are glaring.

Would this cap come from a "reputable dealer" located in NJ?

Marc


Not to drag ths out any further, but since I'm still working to educate myself (and maybe some others can benefit from my questions), are the differences you are talking about between the caps in the shape? I see that the top of my cap is smaller and tighter, if you will, and RussiaMilitaria's is bigger and more floppy. The materials seriously look pretty much exactly the same to me.

Edited by Nack, 09 September 2008 - 15:43 .


#57 Wild Card

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Posted 10 September 2008 - 02:15

Gentlemen.

Somehow, I seem to have missed this thread until now. I must admit that I could probably never sort out exactly what is good, what is bad, what is good but... . While I find uniforms and hats to be exceptionally interesting, I have never ?taken the leap?. I do have to say though, that of everything posted, I do find that leather cap in post #23 to be absolutely irresistible.

Congratulations to all on your fine items, cheers.gif

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#58 Belaruski

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 07:14

Rick makes a very good point about actually handling items rather than judging photos. For example almost every cloth item looks fake if you use flash, or too much light on a white background etc.
Nack's blue topped cap being a fine example, ins ome pics I like the colour of the blue wool, and in others I think no...
Like Richie said, there are no experts just opinions based on what we can see.





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