Dave Danner Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 (edited) Hi,-Still looking for info about the honor cross ( and if possible images ).What was it given for and how many times ?-What's the difference between the gold merit cross, silver merit cross, honor cross and Wilhelm Ernst War Cross ?- Famous poeple who were decorated with this order ( info/images ).- And as usual if you have more info/images/links... about this orderplease share.Best regards,RanThe grades of the White Falcon were Grand Cross (Gro?kreuz), Commander 1st Class (Komturkreuz 1. Klasse), Commander (Komturkreuz), Knight 1st Class (Ritterkreuz 1. Abteilung), and Knight 2nd Class (Ritterkreuz 2. Abteilung), with the Merit Cross (Verdienstkreuz) affiliated with the order. Sachsen-Weimar had another decoration for enlisted soldiers, the General Honor Decoration with Clasp and Swords (Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen mit Bandschnalle und Schwertern). For enlisted soldiers, this was the Grand Duchy's Iron Cross equivalent. The Wilhelm Ernst War Cross was a pinback decoration, loosely equivalent to the Iron Cross 2nd Class ("loosely" because the award criteria were stricter - you had to be a native of the Grand Duchy or serving in its regiments and already have the Iron Cross 1st Class - and it was much rarer, awarded 362 times). The Wilhelm Ernst War Cross could, however, be awarded without regard to rank. For the other Sachsen-Weimar decorations - the White Falcon and the General Honor Decoration - one's rank generally determined what grade one got. The Merit Crosses were for senior NCO and warrant officer-type ranks (Feldwebelleutnant, Offizier-Stellvertreter), which was also the typical rank for the General Honor Decoration in Gold. Regular NCOs got the General Honor Decoration in Silver, and junior enlisted the General Honor Decoration in Bronze.As for "famous" recipients, the White Falcon was the Grand Duchy's main award, so there are lots of famous recipients among the ranks of princes and generals. If you are thinking of lower ranking recipients, many of whom may have gone on to other things, some are:Joachim von Ribbentrop - received the White Falcon Knight 2nd Class in World War I. Later Foreign Minister of Nazi Germany. Executed at Nuremberg in October 1946.Gerd von Rundstedt - held a pre-war White Falcon without swords. Later a field marshal and recipient of the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oakleaves and Swords.Gotthard Heinrici - served in IR 95, a Thuringian unit (Saxe-Coburg and Saxe-Meiningen) and on the General Staff, and received not only the White Falcon, but five other Thuringian decorations (Saxe-Ernestine House Order, Carl Eduard War Cross, Duke Carl Eduard Medal with Crown and Sword Clasp, Princely Reuss Honor Cross, Princely Schwarzburg Honor Cross). In World War II, he rose to Generaloberst and received the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oakleaves and Swords. He was regarded as a master of defensive warfare and commanded 4th Army, 1st Panzer Army and Army Group Vistula.Walter von Unruh - also a recipient of the Pour le Merite and the W?rttemberg Military Merit Order. Otto von Knobelsdorff - A Prussian, but served in IR 94 and had both the White Falcon Knight 2nd Class and the Wilhelm Ernst War Cross. Was later a General der Panzertruppe and received the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oakleaves and Swords.Paul Laux - born in Weimar, but served in the Saxon Army. Also had both the White Falcon and the Wilhelm Ernst War Cross, as well as the Saxon Military St. Henry Order. Was later a General der Infanterie and received the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oakleaves.Mortimer von Kessel - a Pomeranian cavalry officer who received the White Falcon Knight 2nd Class. Later a General der Panzertruppe and holder of the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oakleaves.Hans von Obstfelder - later General der Infanterie and holder of the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oakleaves and Swords. Edited February 6, 2007 by Dave Danner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 My bad. There apparently was an Honor Cross, although I don't know anything about it. It might have been discontinued before the war. I will check my references when I get home.As for the Merit Cross, I did promise better (or at least bigger) pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted February 6, 2007 Author Share Posted February 6, 2007 Priceless info and beautiful images, thank you Dave for your help.If anybody has pics of "famous"/known people wearing the White Falcon it wouldbe great to see an image and get some info about the person.I can't get enough of this order, it's my favorite.Best regards,Ran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeikoGrusdat Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 maybe someone wants to help me with the grades of the falcons on this bar.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stijn David Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Hello Heiko, A very nice ribbon bar, i think the white falcons are :* Knight 1 e class with swords Then the second ribbon represents either * Knight second class with swords or the war merit cross Cordial greetings, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deruelle Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Hi Heiko, It is not common that we can see a crown on the SF3aX. Like the crown is not a higher grade like for the Bavarian Military Merit order. Nice but strange. RegardsChristophe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stijn David Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Hello, And here is a White falcon that will land real soon in Belgium More once it has landed.Cordial greetings, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudius Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Hello, And here is a White falcon that will land real soon in Belgium More once it has landed.Cordial greetings,Ah...Yes, please show some more once it has landed. It looks like the White Falcon is roosting with some other friends. Yes? I would love to see the whole bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Heiko: a Silbernes Verdienstkreuz X ( all by itself, oh my ) just can NOT have been given to anyone with a Ritter I X.Lower classes should have been returned for a higher grade too.If the bar is original, God-alone knows what the wearer intended to represent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deruelle Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Hi, An interresting photo of an Oberst from Flakartillerie.RegardsChristophe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deruelle Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Nice photo of General F?rster.Christophe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deruelle Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 A close up of the medal bar.Christophe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Remember this fellow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stijn David Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Hello, Very nice pictures => just love them.And here is the bar to wich the white falcon - knight 2 nd. class i posted does belong And now the brothers and sisters besides the falcon can also be vieuwed Once it landed, better scans will be posted.Cordial greetings, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted February 10, 2007 Author Share Posted February 10, 2007 Very nice images everybody and congratulations Stijn David Christophe what does this mean "An interresting photo of an Oberst from Flakartillerie"( translation please ), any name on this guy ?Stogieman, no, I don't remember this fellow but I'd like to know.Best regards,Ran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stijn David Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Hello, Thank you Ran, it will be my first falcon and probably also my only one i will be ever able to afford Cordial greetings, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stijn David Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Hello, As we have seen now alread a few of these stunning birds, we still have not mentioned the producers who where active to produce (restore) them once upon a time. Bury Isaak Born: 29.06.1782 - deceased: 24.02;1851He produced all classes of the White falcon, except for the knights cross 2 Abt. As far as is known he signed his pieces (breast stars) with for example: "J.C.M?ller Bury/ und J?nger / in Hanau" as well as with "Bury & Leonhard"Fehrmann, Johann HeinrichBorn: 07.02.1798 - deceased : after 1866He only did produced stiched starsn he is more known from his work as produced from the prussian black eagle order, etc ... J?nger, Johann JakobFrom 1814 he was participant in the company of Bury (see above)Leonhard, Johann FriedrichBorn: 01.08.1795 - deceased: 05.10.1840He was the coussin of Isaak Bury and they cooperated - see aboveM?ller TheodorBorn: 04.05.1839 - deceased: 06.03.1908Active in the production of White falcons after 1891 (see reason => Wirsing). He signed his work with "TH.M?ller" as well as with "TH.M?ller / Hofjuwelier / Weimar" . He produced all types of white falcons After his death his sons (Hans & Wilhelm) did produce further - see next M?ller Hans & WilhelmHans : born; 15.04.1875 - deceased: 04.02.1946Wilhelm: born: 26.11.1876 - deceased: 07.10.1966The first worked in their fathers company and took it over after his death in 1908. They produced all grades of the White falcon, including the later (1915) created "Wilhelm-Ernst-Kriegskreuz"Toissant Charles & Pierre EtienneCharles : born; 04.08.1720 - deceased : ?Pierre Etienne : born; 04.10.1726 - deceased : ? Born in berlin as son of a baker, they learend however the profession of jeweler and moved towards Hanau where they did ground the company of the Toissant brothers. They produced pieces in order for Bury. The White falcon awarded towards Goethe was also from their hand.Wirsing WilhelmBetween 1800 and 1870 active (read alive) in WeimarSince 1830 he was a jeweler in Weimar, between 1840 and 1842 he first produced orders of the White falcon (Komturstern and Ritterkreuz 2 e Abt.)Since 1850 production of all grades of the white falcon. Rarely he signed pieces, iff so the signature "Wirsing" or "Wirsing / in Weimar"Stopped producing due to age and bad health in 1880Wirsing, FranzBetween 1830 and 1890 active in Weimar, son of Wirsing Wilhelm. Since the stop of his father in 1880 he took over the small bussines, from 1891 he could no longer follow the concurence and was forced to stop the production. His health was also ruined it seems.He produced all gades of white falcons.Then a few others (foreign) jewelers should have produced also white falcons, these are exceptions but do exist => for example Wolfers / Brussels etc ... and mostly these then produced in order of a high personality. We also have to take into account that these orders where to be given back once the former recipient was deceased. Often these jewels where damaged and they where then restored (iff posisble) and awarded once again. It also happened that attributes (for example) swords where added, etc ... etc... Here is a close up from the "Ritterkreuz 2 e Klasse with swords" from the shown medal bar. This cross does most probably come from the production from the M?ller company. Cordial greetings, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeikoGrusdat Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 today I found another falcon in my collection.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deruelle Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 Hi Heiko, A beautiful treasur you find here. The X are beautiful It's the first time I see such swords for this knight cross. It seems to be the swords for the Ernesine knight cross.Why this ribbon bar is not in my collection RegardsChristophe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 Here is a wartime photo of a Landsturmpflichtiger Arzt in Stabsarztstelle. What class of the order would have been worn on the breast like this? Any chance of putting a name to the Dr. in the photo? All that is on the back is the woman's first name and the date, October 1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 What a cheapo-- hanging that enamelled beauty off a ribbon bar all by itself! That would have been a Knight 2nd (SWF3bX)...which is, you guessed it, the ONE class out of all of them where the roll is incomplete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 Thanks for the reply Rick. I could not see the red ribbon in the photo, so I thought for some strange reason it was pinned on in that position. So, this doctor is wearing an EKII and a White Falcon with swords. It seems that he has done something other than work in a hospital far behind the lines. It would be very interesting to know where he served. I have seen priests with black/white EKIIs, so I guess it would not be surprising that a doctor would have either of these two awards? Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 Probably the battalion surgeon in a frontline unit.Too bad no name on back! Or a mailed Feldpost unit stamp. Clues, clues, clues. Aggggh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 (edited) Here's another one, thankfully with a writing on the back. Lt dR Hans Urbach: Edited July 13, 2022 by webr55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 (edited) I found him in the Saxon rolls: Urbach got his SA3bX on 8.1.1917 as Prussian Lt dR from "Leiter Zeitung 10. Ar" (?) - was he a war correspondent? Edited July 13, 2022 by webr55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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