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Medal 2. December 1873 - Question?



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#1 wschmidt

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 12:53

Hello people,

I have 2 of this medals, but I know nothing about it...

Is it one Comemorative Medal? Civil and Militar people? When it was criated?

Regards,

William Schmidt








#2 Ulsterman

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 14:44

Well, RR can tell you more about it than I, but according to Hessenthal and Schreiber, it was founded on Dec. 2nd, 1873, on the 25th anniversary of the Emperor Franz Josephs' reign, for award, "without difference in rank or station" for service in a campaign in the service of the Emperor from 1848 onwards. Made from "cannon metal".
Awarded to persons who served in the Bosnian campaigns of 1878/80 and 1882, the China expedition.
Also,it seems to have been (self) awarded" to persons who fought in the AH armies in WW1 before the death of the Emperor in September 21, 1916".
Recently, it has been reliably reported that Austrian veterans' societies also awarded the medal to members who served in WW1 in the 1920s and 1930s.
There were a number of different variations and privately made medals.
The doc. below was emailed to me recently from a collector in Austria and it shows the award of the medal by a vets' society after the end of the monarchy.

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#3 Ulsterman

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 15:00

I believe this chap is wearing one. The color shift makes the yellow look darker. One can barely see the black lines.

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#4 Rick Research

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 15:32

The 1873 War Medal was awarded retroactively for surviving Austro-Hungarian veterans for campaigns as far back as 1848, and was last offically granted to forces which took part in suppression of the Boxer Rebellion in China 1900-1901. Robert Noss has a photo of an Austrian officer attached to the German colonial forces in Southwest Africa who also seems to have received a literally unique one for the Herero-Hottentot campaigns of 1904-06--

because I do not think such sloppy non-regulation wear would have been permitted or tolerated before 1914.

That's an interesting post-war veterans group document. They had absolutely NO legal right to award Hapsburg medals, of course. Any worn for World War service are non-regulation-- though fairly common self-awarded pieces. When the Nazis took over in 1938, they had no clue what the old Austrian regulations were, so the non-regulation wear of these medals for 1914+ continued.

#5 Elmar Lang

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Posted 29 January 2009 - 18:38

Hello,

an interesting question.

Actually, the right to wear Kriegsmedaille should have been extended to the war started in 1914 (Imperial Decision from Dec. 16th 1916, where the medal is called "Kriegserinnerungsmedaille"), with a different ribbon (yellow with a black stripe on one side, the other with a green-white-red stripe).

The Austrian Republican government, had the right to complete the award procedures, when started earlier that the armistice and abdication of the Emperor.

This could be the case of the posted "Legitimation".

Best wishes,

Enzo



#6 Iver

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 08:44

The medal is in nice condition, if I see good, it?s an early issue, should have initials "T.S." on the cut down of portrait...

#7 Kev in Deva

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 10:01

Hallo Gents beer.gif

Very interesting reading, thanks for posting.

Is there not a Hungarian produced version,

with DECEMBER spelt DEZEMBER ? unsure.gif

Kevin in Deva. beer.gif

#8 Gordon Craig

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 10:12

QUOTE (Kev in Deva @ Jan 31 2009, 05:01 ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hallo Gents beer.gif

Very interesting reading, thanks for posting.

Is there not a Hungarian produced version,

with DECEMBER spelt DEZEMBER ? unsure.gif

Kevin in Deva. beer.gif


Kevin,

No there is not. The Hungarian spelling for December, while pronounced differently than in English or German, is spelled the same.

Regards,

Gordon


#9 Iver

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 10:18

Kev: As far as I know, the version with german Dezember instead of December was only one of many variants of this medal, made in the long period of War medal 1873 production... Has nothimg to do with hungarians...
Is it sure, that the legitimation is for war medal 1873 (Kriegsmedaille 1873)? Why would a veteran organization (Kameradschaftsbund) award it?

#10 Kev in Deva

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 15:42

QUOTE (Gordon Craig @ Jan 31 2009, 10:12 ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Kevin,
No there is not. The Hungarian spelling for December, while pronounced differently than in English or German, is spelled the same.
Regards, Gordon


Hallo Gordon cheers.gif & Iver cheers.gif thanks for that info, so another Urban myth can be laid to rest jumping.gif

Kevin in Deva. beer.gif

#11 John McEwen

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 05:05

Can you tell me what the TS initials stand for? I have 45 examples of the Kriegsmedaille, but only 6 of them are marked this way. The medailleur was Joseph Tautenhayn, so those are not his initials. Do you have information or references on this?


QUOTE (Iver @ Jan 31 2009, 08:44 ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The medal is in nice condition, if I see good, it?s an early issue, should have initials "T.S." on the cut down of portrait...


#12 Iver

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 06:52

John McEwen: its in latin - T.S. - Tautenhayn sculpsit (Tautenhayn engraved)

JEDLIČKA R. - SEDL?K L.F.: V?lečn? medaile 1873, In:SIGNUM, V. řada, č.1/2008 (thats a czech phaleristic journal)

#13 John McEwen

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 19:18

Thanks for the prompt reply. While I read French, German and some Italian, I can't read Czech. It is a pity!

John

QUOTE (Iver @ Feb 15 2009, 07:52 ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
John McEwen: its in latin - T.S. - Tautenhayn sculpsit (Tautenhayn engraved)

JEDLIČKA R. - SEDL?K L.F.: V?lečn? medaile 1873, In:SIGNUM, V. řada, č.1/2008 (thats a czech phaleristic journal)


#14 Iver

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 08:53

QUOTE (John McEwen @ Feb 15 2009, 20:18 ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks for the prompt reply. While I read French, German and some Italian, I can't read Czech. It is a pity!

John


Its written in czech language, but resume is in german... it costs only cca 16 EUR pro year (incl. postal costs in foreign).. every year there are 4 numbers, in every one is at least one article about A-H decorations...

Edited by Iver, 16 February 2009 - 08:54 .


#15 John McEwen

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 18:54

Can you send me a scan of the German version of this article and will you please give me the contact information for a subscription to the journal?

Thanks again for your help. I am preparing an article about the variations and history of the Kriegsmedaille and would like as much information as I can find on the subject. If you or anyone else in the club could send me quality images of medals, I will be pleased to include them in the footnotes and bibliography of this article. It is scheduled for publication in the January-February issue of the Journal of the Medals and Orders Society of America (JOMSA). These images can be sent to my gmail address <collectables.jmm@gmail.com>

John

QUOTE (Iver @ Feb 16 2009, 09:53 ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Its written in czech language, but resume is in german... it costs only cca 16 EUR pro year (incl. postal costs in foreign).. every year there are 4 numbers, in every one is at least one article about A-H decorations...


#16 Iver

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 19:00

John McEwen: The article is written in czech, only resume is in german, but if U can wait few days, i will try to translate it for you...
If you want, it?s possible to publish the article i mentioned. I know the authors and they agree. It?s normal here, that in czech journal are published translated articles from austrian or german journals, etc..
And one more question... are you going to write about cases and miniatures of this medal?

Edited by Iver, 16 February 2009 - 20:59 .


#17 John McEwen

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 22:06

Hello Iver:

Yes, I will write about miniatures, although I do not have very many now (7 or 8). I would like show some cases, but. as you know, cases are not very common. I think I have 3 or 4. If you have images of some, I would like to see them, please.

Thank you very much for doing a translation for me. I will certainly wait as long as you need.

Have you seen a miniature dated 2./December/1872? I have one. I wonder if this is a common error?

Thanks again,

John

QUOTE (Iver @ Feb 16 2009, 20:00 ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
John McEwen: The article is written in czech, only resume is in german, but if U can wait few days, i will try to translate it for you...
If you want, it?s possible to publish the article i mentioned. I know the authors and they agree. It?s normal here, that in czech journal are published translated articles from austrian or german journals, etc..
And one more question... are you going to write about cases and miniatures of this medal?


#18 Iver

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 11:35

John McEwen: I totaly forgot about the translation, i apologize, will do on it in next two days.. tomorrow i will make at least photos of the article (with pictures) and will send it to your email...

#19 Iver

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 17:36

John McEwen: Yesterday i have sent U pictures from the article, now i have send U translation of the article.. Please let me know if both mails arrived...

#20 John McEwen

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 18:15

Thanks again Iver. I received both emails with attachments. I am going to enjoy studying this information.

John

QUOTE (Iver @ Feb 25 2009, 12:35 ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
John McEwen: I totaly forgot about the translation, i apologize, will do on it in next two days.. tomorrow i will make at least photos of the article (with pictures) and will send it to your email...






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