ccj Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 While searching for information about 64 artillery Regt and 64 heavy or foot artillery I came across this Fußartillerie Btl 62 Captains tunic. I have yet to find out much about foot artillery and their war history. I have also been searching for what guns each Foot Artillery units used. This tunic looks to be a nice m15 tunic for an officer with Guard litzen on the collars which intrigues me. Did all Foot Art btl officer wear litzen or was he former a guard officer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Hello! Those Litzen are not normal for that unit. The Fußart.Btl. 62 was set-up by Fußart.Rgt.15. The Fußart.Btl. 62 was (in 1918) equipped with the schwere Feldhaubitze 96 and was under command of the Artillerie-Beobachtungs-Schule I Ost in Groß-Auz (artilleire-observer-school I East in Groß-Auz). There also was a aviation-observer school. So you don´t have a fighting unit, but I think a quite rare unifirm of that school! Châpeau! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 It's also apparently an altered issue enlisted man's tunic. Interesting to say the least. Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Is this the gun you refer to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 So what's you opinion of authenticity? It's also apparently an altered issue enlisted man's tunic. Interesting to say the least. Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) Is this the gun you refer to? No. your photos show: 1) Feldhaubitze 105mm M98/09 2) probably Feldkanone 77mm, M96 n.A. I only have photos of the Feldhaubitze M93. But I think, there ain´t no big difference to the M96 Edited July 22, 2014 by The Prussian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Ah, I simply can't find these on Internet search. Looking for a good German artillery book now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishGunner Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Andy, your sources are always very good, but I don't think there was a "schwere Feldhaubitze 96" Franz Kosar's book, "Artillerie im 20 Jahrhundert" is probably the best print resource on WWI artillery pieces, he lists: 15cm schweres Feldhaubitze M1893 (as in your photos) and it's successor piece the 15cm schweres Feldhaubitze M1902 There also was the 10.5cm Feldkanone M1899 and M1902/04 - mainly guns of the FussArtillerie. The only piece with model year 1896 were FeldArtillerie guns - the famous 7.7cm Feldkanone 96 (FK 96 a/A). The FeldArtillerie also had the 10.5cm leichte Feldhaubitze M1898/09. This is corroborated by two of the best websites available on WWI and German artillery: Lovett Artillery Collection Landships II Three other very good websites on WWI artillery also make no mention of a "schwere Feldhaubitze 96". Nor does Herbert Jager's book, "German Artillery of World War One." Jager writes a bit about German artillery development just prior to WWI. He mentions that Krupp pieces from the mid-1870s saw fortress (and probably training school) service into WWI; the next big advancement was in 1894-1899. But he only writes about the 7.7cm Feldkanone M96 (both alter Art and neue Art). Andy, does your artillery source have any other unit armed with a "schwere Feldhaubitze 96"? Perhaps it's a typo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishGunner Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Ah, I simply can't find these on Internet search. Looking for a good German artillery book now. See Post #8. I've been researching German WWI artillery for quite some time and these are the best resources I have found. As I've mentioned, researching FussArtillerie is very difficult; like looking for pfennigs on the beach. Resources are scattered on the web and print and all are incomplete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishGunner Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 While it's difficult to reference because it isn't indexed very well (and focuses more on the politics/personalities than the guns), I also couldn't find a heavy howitzer model 1896 in William Manchester's book, "The Arms of Krupp" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Hi IG! Well you´re right! I also haven´t found a M96. I posted it, because I read in the "Ehrenbuch der schweren Artillerie". The was the 96 mentioned. But I think, it was a fault. So, we can say, it will be the 93 in this case. I will mention those books: Muther:/Schirmer: Das Gerät der Artillerie vor, in und nach dem Weltkrieg" Also very intersting the both books "Ehrenbuch der schweren Artillerie" (vol 1 and 2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishGunner Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Also very intersting the both books "Ehrenbuch der schweren Artillerie" (vol 1 and 2) This is at the top of my wish list. Unfortunately, it's at the bottom of my wife's budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 This is at the top of my wish list. Unfortunately, it's at the bottom of my wife's budget. Great sentence... I know, they ain´t cheap, but they will get more expensive each year. You better should buy them now. Like the Muther/Schirmer! I haven´t seen them for sale! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 All makes since now. I could find the schwere Feldhaubitze 96 but could find a Feldkanone M96 and 15cm schweres Feldhaubitze M1893. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 That´s right! I checked again the "Ehrenbuch". There is marked: schwere Feldhaubitze (96). Maybe the 96 ain´t a year (or a mistake) or a quantity. The M93 normally was known as "schwere Feldhaubitze" without a M93, because it was the only one 15cm howitzer in that period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishGunner Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) That´s right! I checked again the "Ehrenbuch". There is marked: schwere Feldhaubitze (96). Maybe the 96 ain´t a year (or a mistake) or a quantity. The M93 normally was known as "schwere Feldhaubitze" without a M93, because it was the only one 15cm howitzer in that period I seriously doubt it's a quantity of guns. In 1914, according to Hermann Cron's book, Fuß-Artillerie battalions consisted of two types; heavy howitzer battalions and mortar battalions. Heavy howitzer battalions had 16 howitzers (typically the 15cm schwere Feldhaubitze - 15 cm sFH), manned by 1219 troops and were supported by 707 horses and 56 ammunition wagons. Herbert Jäger's figures are 416 15cm heavy field howitzers total at the outbreak of the war. Heavy batteries typically had four guns; even if the Fußart.Btl. 62 had four batteries (in 1918), that would be 16 guns. I can't imagine this type of garrison unit having more guns - even for training. Edited July 23, 2014 by IrishGunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishGunner Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 The Lovett Artillery website has this extract from the "Ehrenbuch der Deut. FussArt." FussArt Btl 62 1. Batterie - 15cm sFH M93 2. Batterie - s 10cm K (Marine) 3. Batterie - 15cm sFH M93 It also cites the Artillerie Beoab. Schule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) Hello IG! Yes, you´re right! That is list from the Ehrenbuch which shows the units of 1918. There is also a list from 1914. For the schwere Feldhaubitze we have the "arrow with the circle". In the 1914 list the arrow with the circle is named "Feldhaubitze (96)" I don´t know what the 96 stands for. Right now I don´t believe in quantity, because the other weapons don´t have such a number Edited July 24, 2014 by The Prussian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Hello IG! Yes, you´re right! That list from the Ehrenbuch which shows the units of 1918. There is also a list from 1914. For the schwere Feldhaubitze we have the "arrow with the circle". In the 1914 list the arrow with the circle is named "Feldhaubitze (96)" I don´t know what the 96 stands for. Right now I don´t believe in quantity, because the other weapons don´t have such a number Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Are we sure this unit was formed in 1918? I thought earlier it was 1916 but can't find data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishGunner Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) Are we sure this unit was formed in 1918? I thought earlier it was 1916 but can't find data. See Post #5 from Dave Danner in the FussArtl. Bn 64 thread you started previously: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/63028-fussartillerie-regiment-64/ Yes, FussArtl. Bn 62 was formed in 1916 according to his info. The info here provided by Andy is referencing the battalion in 1918. Edited July 24, 2014 by IrishGunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Fußartillerie-Bataillone: • im Jahr 1916 aufgestellt: Nr. 25, 32-35, 37, 41-49, 51, 53, 55, 57, 59-83, 85-99, 150-157, 401-404, b.4, b.5, b.7-9, b.11-17 Yes, I saw that but haven't found any information on what duties the unit performed from 1916 to 1918. Andy listed the year 1918 date for the unit and its function but I don't know what its per pose was prior. I was starting to wonder if the above list is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishGunner Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Yes, I saw that but haven't found any information on what duties the unit performed from 1916 to 1918. Andy listed the year 1918 date for the unit and its function but I don't know what its per pose was prior. I was starting to wonder if the above list is correct. I see no reason to doubt the accuracy of the list. Without a reference that specifically refers to FuAR Batl. Nr. 62, there is no way to really determine its "purpose" during a span of 2 years. Even if you find it referenced, it would only apply to the dates specifically noted. As I'm mentioned previously, the study of the Fuß-Artillerie can be quite frustrating; there were many re-organizations, units changed headquarters more frequently than their socks, and references are very inconsistent. A Corps initially had one or two associated regiments of Fuß-Artillerie; however, once the war began, the Fuß-Artillerie no longer fought as regiments. Battalions were allocated individually and regimental staffs assumed duties as Corps Artillery commands. As the war progressed, heavy artillery units often remained in one sector providing general support and frequently changed its higher headquarters affiliation. Usually there were 8 or 9 batteries allocated to a quiet division sector, with twice that many in a division sector considered more active. Heavy batteries within a sector would come under control of the divisional Artillery commander; the heavy batteries would usually remain in place as divisions rotated throughout the front. From it's formation in 1916 to 1918 (when it seems to be with the artillery observer school), FuAR Batl. Nr. 62 could have had any number of missions and could have been assigned to any number of higher headquarters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 Thank you very much. I've been on the Lovett site for a while now and it's amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Yes, of course. The bataillon was formed in 1916. The list only shows the weapons they had in 1918. My small picture about the tactical signs are from 1914. But I only wanted to show, that the arrow with the circle was named Feldhaubitze (96). Fußartillerie is a very special thing, like engineers. I don´t think, that we´ll ever have a list, which shows each unit with every single gun during the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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