Tom Lewis Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Not sure if I am doing something wrong - posted this the other day but it seems to have disappeared. (I am on talewis@bigpond.com if I need to be told to do something better...) Trying to track down what the fourth medal in the Netherlands collection shown is.....I think the first three are: Officer of the Order of Orange Nassau 1892, (military) Long Service Medal (Officers) Mobilisation Cross 1914-1918 ​These are from a box of stuff a friend has, probably from an ancestor. His granddad's surname in the Netherlands was Van Holthe. The rest of the set seems to have some 1936 Olympics medallions, and there are many miscellaneous pieces. ​Help grateful received for an ignorant Aussie. Two pix attached. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul wood Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 The Fourth Medal is the Swedish Order of the Sword, The bar to the right contains the Luxemburg Oaken Crown and the Waldeck Honour Cross, the miniature group below also contains the Luxemburg Order of the Golden Lion.Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacHel Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Nice group! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lewis Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 The Fourth Medal is the Swedish Order of the Sword, The bar to the right contains the Luxemburg Oaken Crown and the Waldeck Honour Cross, the miniature group below also contains the Luxemburg Order of the Golden Lion. Paul Ah, so he has the fourth medal there because it is foreign? Thanks - I will check out the Order. Sounds prestigious. My thinking so far is that this belonged to the person who has the group at top left, and maybe he collected the others... Is there any way to check out who owned the group to the top left? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul wood Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I am sure one of our Swedish members would know if there is a list of Dutch recipients of the Order of the Sword, given that it is a military Order quite likely he was a military attaché to Sweden. The other group could have been awarded to a relative who happened to live over the border in Luxemburg (don't forget Luxemburg was ruled by the Dutch crown until 1890).Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lewis Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 I am sure one of our Swedish members would know if there is a list of Dutch recipients of the Order of the Sword, given that it is a military Order quite likely he was a military attaché to Sweden. The other group could have been awarded to a relative who happened to live over the border in Luxemburg (don't forget Luxemburg was ruled by the Dutch crown until 1890). Paul Many thanks Paul. Most interesting this, for an Aussie. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRA Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 ...quite likely he was a military attaché to Sweden... Hello Tom and Paul! In this thread http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/59369-order-of-seraphim-to-an-italian-officer/ is a discussion as to how an Italian officer was awarded an RSO - Knight of the Order of the Sword - which might be of some interest in this thread too. Royal visits could be quite rewarding not only for senior officers but also for ADCs... /Jonas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudius Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I am sure one of our Swedish members would know if there is a list of Dutch recipients of the Order of the Sword, given that it is a military Order quite likely he was a military attaché to Sweden. Paul Sorry for these ignorant questions: Is the Swedish Order of the Sword always awarded with crossed swords? Even for non-military service? Or is it when you have an Order of the Swords, there are going to be swords on the Order. Or is it because he was a military attaché and not just a civilian attaché that he would get a Order of the Sword with swords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRA Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Sorry for these ignorant questions: Is the Swedish Order of the Sword always awarded with crossed swords? Even for non-military service? Or is it when you have an Order of the Swords, there are going to be swords on the Order. Or is it because he was a military attaché and not just a civilian attaché that he would get a Order of the Sword with swords. The Order of the Sword was a military order and swords are an integrated part of the design. To my knowledge, you had to serve in the armed forces to be awarded the Order of the Sword. The Order of the Polar Star and the Order of Vasa was sometimes awarded to officers, but in these cases it had to be on civilian merits, not military. As to attachés, a civilian attaché would probably receive the Order of the Polar Star while the military attaché would receive the Order of the Sword. /Jonas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudius Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 The Order of the Sword was a military order and swords are an integrated part of the design. To my knowledge, you had to serve in the armed forces to be awarded the Order of the Sword. The Order of the Polar Star and the Order of Vasa was sometimes awarded to officers, but in these cases it had to be on civilian merits, not military. As to attachés, a civilian attaché would probably receive the Order of the Polar Star while the military attaché would receive the Order of the Sword. /Jonas Tack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimj Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I couldn't find any van Holthe when I checked in the "statskalender". But I only sampled a couple of years from 1860-1939 so I guess there is a theoretical chance that he could be in a book I didn't look in. There is also the slim chance he didn't make it to the list if he past away between editions, only living recipient are listed. Most likely place to find him is as a attaché, like Paul and Jonas wrote. But the good news are that there aren't that many Dutch recipients of the order of the sword. Maybe there's a year stamp on the order, that would help in dating the award. For those who want to check to lists you can have a go here: (in the book look for Kongl. Svenska Riddare-Ordnarne) http://runeberg.org/statskal/ No foreign awards listed after 1940. You had to be military to get the order of the sword. The first paragraph in the statues says: This order is awarded to officers in the army and navy ... But maybe the sword mix up comes from the fact that the Sign of the sword was awarded with and without swords. The Sign of the sword is not an order, a merit cross for NCOs, but it is a part of the Royal Order of the Sword (not the insignia but the actual order). /Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lewis Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 Hello Tom and Paul! In this thread http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/59369-order-of-seraphim-to-an-italian-officer/ is a discussion as to how an Italian officer was awarded an RSO - Knight of the Order of the Sword - which might be of some interest in this thread too. Royal visits could be quite rewarding not only for senior officers but also for ADCs... /Jonas Thanks - checking it out... Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odulf Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 In the Dutch Army Lists, there is a Jhr. E.W. [Edzard Willem] van Holthe. The title Jhr. [Jonkheer] can be compared with "the Honourable". E.W. van Holthe was born 8-5-1872 and he died 12-7-1945. His latest rank was a Colonel in the Infantry, posted to the Grenadiers and commanding the 1st Infantry Brigade (consisting of the regiments Grenadiers and Rifles). When he was pensioned on 1-5-1930, he was promoted to Major-General. His decorations are, according to the Army List 1930: Order of Oranje-Nassau, Officer Officers Long Service Decoration, with digit XXXV Honorary Knight of the Order of St.John The Mobilisation Cross 1914-1918 is not always noted in the Army Lists, because it had to be bought at private expenses. However, he is wearing it in the enclosed photo. I am pretty sure that he owned the group of decorations, and that the Swedish Order was added after he was pensioned. As a honorary Major-General he was allowed to wear his uniform and decorations on special occasions. I enclose a photo of him, as a Colonel, but without his Royal Order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxcob Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) In the Dutch Army Lists, there is a Jhr. E.W. [Edzard Willem] van Holthe. The title Jhr. [Jonkheer] can be compared with "the Honourable". E.W. van Holthe was born 8-5-1872 and he died 12-7-1945. His latest rank was a Colonel in the Infantry, posted to the Grenadiers and commanding the 1st Infantry Brigade (consisting of the regiments Grenadiers and Rifles). When he was pensioned on 1-5-1930, he was promoted to Major-General. His decorations are, according to the Army List 1930: Order of Oranje-Nassau, Officer Officers Long Service Decoration, with digit XXXV Honorary Knight of the Order of St.John The Mobilisation Cross 1914-1918 is not always noted in the Army Lists, because it had to be bought at private expenses. However, he is wearing it in the enclosed photo. I am pretty sure that he owned the group of decorations, and that the Swedish Order was added after he was pensioned. As a honorary Major-General he was allowed to wear his uniform and decorations on special occasions. I enclose a photo of him, as a Colonel, but without his Royal Order. That would indicate he received his Officers Long Service Decoration with digit XL on the bar in 1930 just before he was pensioned? Edited January 16, 2015 by saxcob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odulf Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 He was appointed 2nd Lt. on 24-7-1893, so he would qualify for the digit XL in 1933, so after being pensionned, and as far as I can tell from the Army Lists he did not serve in the Dutch Indies (service in the tropics counting double for service time). The records I have give no information about his life and career after 1930. The fact, that his medals are mounted in military style lead to the conclusion that they would be worn on a uniform. As I pointed out before, he was allowed to wear a uniform after 1930. I will have a look at the commemorative book of the Guards Regiment of Grenadiers & Rifles 1929-1939, perhaps his name shows up as a member of some committee or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxcob Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Many German states had a provision according to which years serverd during war times would count double. Was there maybe some similiar rule in the Netherlands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul wood Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 As he was not posted to any of the Dutch Colonies it is most unlikely that he would be eligible for war service.Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lewis Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 My subject's name was definitely "Willem Rudolf Westra Van Holthe" so I suppose that is not him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odulf Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) W.R. Westra van Holthe (born 1888) was a rather insignificant conscript Reserve Officer of the Infantry: 26-03-1909, 2nd Lt. 26-03-1913, 1st Lt. 01-12-1920, hon. discharged He would never have had this combination of medals and decorations. On account of his service he could only have qualified for the 1914-18 Mobilization Cross Edited January 18, 2015 by Odulf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Strong Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 The Order of the Sword was originally presented for bravery in the field and at sea, and later also as a reward for long and distinguished service in the armed forces. http://www.kungahuset.se/royalcourt/monarchy/orders/theorderofthesword.4.396160511584257f2180005299.html Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lewis Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 W.R. Westra van Holthe (born 1888) was a rather insignificant conscript Reserve Officer of the Infantry: 26-03-1909, 2nd Lt. 26-03-1913, 1st Lt. 01-12-1920, hon. discharged He would never have had this combination of medals and decorations. On account of his service he could only have qualified for the 1914-18 Mobilization Cross Maybe he was a medal collector then, and not the recipient. Strange he would have had the Olympics stuff in the same box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odulf Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Can you show some better pics of the Olympic stuff (also the reverse), perhaps that gives a clue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonfelski Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Richter means judge in german. The n.o.k. badge is probably a member badge for the dutch Olympic commitee. The horse medals are probably won as equestrian prizes. Some of them are from the royal military sporting association. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farthingbowl Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 the miniature group with the waldeck and golden lion of nassau is also very nice, the golden lion was not awarded a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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