Soviet Fake orderbooks

[seb16trs]

hello gentlemen, the orders booklets have clearly been bleached...I'm not sure but could the hero booklets have been entirely made up? The leather cover is unprecise, the paper looks news...of course all stamps are ugly. I've seen a better made diploma coming from Ukraine.

about this dealer, who seems to be the "leading faker in ukrainian market"

please look at this set (not orderbooks, so maybe out of subject...)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/35-KGB-COLONEL-BOXIN...1QQcmdZViewItem

certainly a genuine group of papers and photos upgraded with two KGB and NKVD docs... old genuine photo on a brand new KGB ID, a brand new photo on an artificially used NKVD ID...all others docs are genuine in my opinion.

all rare docs, ID and now orders booklets are fakes, all stamps, writtings and numbers have been brillantly put into light by Shawn Caza, a fellow collector.

[seb16trs]

Of course some fake HSU diplomas were entirely made up.

Here is an example.

writting is totally sloppy...

[Alfred]

What do you think about this orderbook with slava 3rd and 2nd class?

regards

Andreas

[Alfred]

and inside

[Mondvor]

I think first two pages (with picture and with name) are original. His only award was Glory 3rd class. Entries about 2nd class Glory and Otvaga are fake. Take a look at the better picture of this book. The one that you placed has light reflection. But on my picture you can see ink color difference and even the shapes of the letters are different.

Edited July 29, 2006 by Mondvor

[Alfred]

Many thanks Andrew, you are a genius.

Now I can put two and two together. The set was sold a few months ago. Now the same seller

sell it again, with the justification the buyer couldn?t pay it.

And now I understand the "bad" picture with light reflections of the order book.

regards

Andreas

[order_of_victory]

MONDVOR,

What do you reckon to these order books

[order_of_victory]

And Next,

Any feed back as always will be appriciated

Order of Victory

[Mondvor]

First three orderbooks are OK for me, didn't find anything suspicious.

The fourth orderbook for Krilov has fake entry about Ushakov medal as well as fake picture and seal.

It would be great if you can post first pages (with recipients names) of three first orderbooks.

Andrew.

[order_of_victory]

Thanks Andrew, I thought the photo for the Ushakov was fake becaus it has the Presidential Stamp

Here are the other pics

Order of Victory

[Mondvor]

Many thanks for the orderbooks pictures.

[order_of_victory]

Thats OK

Does the pics tell you more about the authenticity of the books

Order of Victory

[Mondvor]

Thats OK

Does the pics tell you more about the authenticity of the books

Order of Victory

Those three orderbooks issued to Sidorov, Varavva and Sadasyk are original in every respect. Ink color and handwriting style are the same on both pages. If you have all items from Sidorov's group I would say it is amazing group and you are lucky to have it.

[order_of_victory]

Unfortunatly, all I have for these are the documents, but now i know these are genuine I will ask for some reaserch on them

Thank you very much Andrew

Order of Victory

[Mondvor]

You are wellcome

By the way, it Sadasuk's orderbook what is the number of GPW - is that 343087 or 343887? It's not clear on the picture.

[order_of_victory]

I ts terribly clear in the book it either a 0 or a 9, but looking at the other 9 in the book I would deffinatly 343087

Order of Victory

[Mondvor]

Thank you!

[order_of_victory]

What do you think of this Order Book, it being offered for sale wth the Correct Red Star

Order of Victory

Edited September 6, 2006 by order_of_victory

[Mondvor]

Looks OK to me.

[order_of_victory]

Thank Mondvor

I just though it was strange that a Irreproachable service medal was in the book

Order of Victory

[Christian Zulus]

Typical faked OK for Motherland 3cl & 2cl

Gentlemen,

here is a very typical example of a faked order booklet for a Motherland 3cl & 2cl. To have both orders in ONE booklet is quite unusal, I think. One booklet for each award was more common at the final years of the SU.

I purchased 2 outstanding beautyful "Crabs" - unissued, fresh from the stock, as the booklet - 12 years ago in Vienna for about USD 900,- and got the booklet with them. Dietrich Herfurth told me, that the larger military units had their stocks of awards plus blank booklets and that he saw a lot of such faked order booklets at the market.

So, my officer Antipov never got these 2 "Crabs" .

Best regards from Vienna

Christian Zulus

[attachmentid=56848]

[Christian Zulus]

Typical faked OK for Motherland 3cl & 2cl - 2nd part

[attachmentid=56849]

[Mondvor]

Christian, despite the fact that two classes of "crab" are not common, it does not mean that such event is impossible. Here is a sample of a book I believe to be real. And I have two more examples.

[Mondvor]

Second page.

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Andrei,

perfect order booklet .

No, I meant the very last order booklets of the SU. Your example is one from the early 80's with the stamped signature of faithful Georgadse, where everything is correct. It is interesting, that the recipient got his 2 "Crabs" always 2 days before the "Red Army Day" of the 23rd of february. But most of the "Crabs" where given around the "Red Army Day", as it is written in the literature.

For my taste, I regard the "Crab" as an outstanding beautiful order. Piplienko was an excellent designer.

So, you also think, that my order booklet is a typical fake? The booklet was issued in 1985 and the stamped signature is of Gorbacev as a President of the CCCP .

Regarding my 2 other threads - General Skuba & manufacturing of awards at Mondvor -, do you have any idea? Maybe you can translate the exact rank and position of General Skuba at his ID-booklet - many thanks!

Best regards

Christian