WW1 and WW2 Commonwealth Groupings

[Guest Darrell]

Very nice Paul,

Do you know when he fought in North Africa or which battles he was in?

Edited November 8, 2005 by Darrell

[notned]

and here is my Great Grandfather!

44059 Pte Leslie Gordon Forbes NZMGC

when i was a silly young lad...i sold his original medals...boohoo!

so all i have is this lot

and the memories from when as a child, i was at his house in Waiau in North Canterbury of NZ, and was

being nosey, as kids are...and in his shed i found the original Vickers machine gun that he had brought back from the war! awesome! it is now in the Waiau Museum.

fancy that! being able to bring it home!

He was famous in the area there for riding an old Indian motorcycle everywhere he went.

Enjoy!

Regards

Paul

[notned]

and here is my other Grandfather

Clifford Harry Palmer formerly of 156 Sqn RAF coastal command.

He flew in France and germany and over the bay of biscay.

was awarded the

1939-45 star

Atlantic star with France and Germany bar

Defense medal

War Medal

and finally the RNZAF LSGC medal for 18years undetected crime...

He is still alive and well in Christchurch and is now 83.

He is the secretary for the Brevet club here ( RNZAF old boys) and regularly contributes to the RAF aircrew magazine, 'Intercom'.

He was in the RAF regiment at first then in 1943 when 156 Sqn got the Yankee Liberators he joined and became an AirGunner.

Served in India after the war, and in 1953 came to live in NZ with his family. then took a demotion from Flight sargeant, to start all over again and reached the rank again pretty quick!.

One photo here is of his crew he is the second right at the back.

the other pic, is him receiving his LSGC.

Hope the gents enjoy this little bit of my families history!

best regards

Paul

New Zealand.

[notned]

Very nice Paul,

Do you know when he fought in North Africa or which battles he was in?

Hi Darrell.

He was in the 6th infantry brigade

I have his records here and it states that he was in Egypt by 30/9/40

reported safe in Egypt 18/5/41

disobedience 14 days CB. 17/6/41 hee hee!

He was Overseas from 27/9/40 to the 12/7/43

My auntie has the 26th battalions Official war record book and i am to inherit it( he is my direct ancestor my fathers father!,and i am the last male in the family line from the first four ships to NZ!) as soon as i can get down south to pick it up. It will tell me exactly where and when he fought.

Cheers

Paul

[Guest Darrell]

Hi Darrell.

He was in the 6th infantry brigade

I have his records here and it states that he was in Egypt by 30/9/40

reported safe in Egypt 18/5/41

disobedience 14 days CB. 17/6/41 hee hee!

He was Overseas from 27/9/40 to the 12/7/43

My auntie has the 26th battalions Official war record book and i am to inherit it( he is my direct ancestor my fathers father!,and i am the last male in the family line from the first four ships to NZ!) as soon as i can get down south to pick it up. It will tell me exactly where and when he fought.

Cheers

Paul

Great stuff. Can hardly wait to hear what he did

[Chris Boonzaier]

Not in my custody (alas), but I gained permission from the current custodian to share this beauty here.

Jemadar Rattan Singh, 3rd Skinner's Horse

Drool...drool...drool..... I love 3rd Skinners horse...

[Michael Johnson]

Just stumbled on this thread. I've got a few things to add if I can stay awake long enough to do some scans.

1914 Star trio, GSM "Kurdistan" IMSM - 9th Hodson's Horse

OBE, IGS 1908 "NWF 1930-31", IGS 1936 "NWF 1936-37", 1939-45 Star, Pacific Star, Defence Medal, War Medal, 1953 Coronation Medal, LSGC bar India, Pakistan Independence, (Pakistan Republic Medal -added)

[Michael Johnson]

Michael Johnson said:

OBE, IGS 1908 "NWF 1930-31", IGS 1936 "NWF 1936-37", 1939-45 Star, Pacific Star, Defence Medal, War Medal, 1953 Coronation Medal, LSGC bar India, Pakistan Independence, (Pakistan Republic Medal -added)

Herbert Waring. Joined the A.S.C. jsu after the First War, transferred to the (R.)I.A.S.C. Commissioned during the Second War in the I.A.O.C., was probably P.o.W. at Singapore. Transferred I.E.M.E. then went to Pakistan on Partition British Service, Special List. Was awarded the O.B.E. as Lt. Col. in what was probably the last Honours list befor Pakistan became a Republic. His substantive rank was Captain. All of his medlas are named.

I also have several pewtermugs neamed to him, and an illuminated Address of Honour given by one of the Workshops on his retirement.

 

Edited March 3, 2022 by Michael Johnson

[Guest Darrell]

Nice one Michael. I bet Ed will love this one

[Michael Johnson]

I'm too tired to type straight. More later, if I get a chance.

[Geoff Reeves]

Some beautiful groups so far! Here are a few in my possession...

The first is to 6405860 Cpl. L.W. Finch of the East Surrey Regiment (39-45 Star, Burma Star, Defence Medal, War Medal, GSM 1918-62 with clasp "Palestine 1945-48"). His service number indicates his initial enlistment was with the Royal Sussex Regiment. Now this does not mean that he served with them during the war - he could have gone on to serve with any unit of the Army - your initial service number always went with you - but assuming he did, he was probably with the 9th Battalion of the Royal Sussex's - as they are the only the battalion of this regiment to be entitled to the Burma Star (that I've been able to find and I'll happily stand here and be corrected!) After the war it would seem that Finch liked Army life and did a short-term engagement with the East Surrey Regiment, probably the 2nd Battalion as they were posted to Haifa from '45-'47. All medals are unnamed as issued save the General Service Medal 1918-1962 which is properly impressed 6405860 CPL. L.W. FINCH. SURREYS.

[Geoff Reeves]

Next up is a Canadian group for service in two wars. Italy Star, France and Germany Star, Canadian Volunteer Service Medal with Overseas clasp, War Medal, Commonwealth Korea Medal, and UN Korea Medal (these last two properly impressed B-800032 L.O. Duval. This group's is quite interesting as there is a bit of quirk to it that some see right away (I didn't) and others (usually those who don't collect Commonwealth WW2 groups) don't notice at all. Don't worry all will be revealed soon.

B-800032 Lyle Orval Duval enlisted into the RCAF at Kirkland Lake, Ontario (way far north in mining country) in early 1943. He held the rank of Aircraftsman 2nd Class and was training as flight crew when, for reasons unknown, he remustered into the infantry in late 1944. It is possible he wasn't given much of a choice as Canada was desperately short of infantry with both the Normandy and Italian campaigns in full swing - however that we'll never know.

Whatever the reason Duval arrived in England on 9 December 1944 and after a period of training was appointed Lance-Corporal and posted to the Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment, arriving in Italy on 7 February 1945. This qualified him for the Italy Star and started his 6 month qualifying clock for the 1939-45 Star (oops...have I given it away already?! ). However, the H&PER, along with the rest of the 1st Infantry Brigade of the 1st Canadian Division was getting ready to leave Italy - the bulk of the Regiment left in February '45, but Duval didn't leave until 10 March '45. I suspect he was a member of the rear-party on clean-up duty.

Two days after leaving Italy, on 12 March 1945, Duval arrived in France, thus qualifying him for the France and Germany Star - although unlike the Italy Star - for which I suspect Duval saw no actual combat, it wasn't going to be easy. The 1st Canadian Division - The Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment amongst them, saw very tough fighting through Holland and Germany to the end of the war. As an aside, I wonder if Duval was a member of Farley Mowat's company - the famous Canadian author was a Company Commander with this regiment throught the Italian and North West Europe Campaigns (he wrote "And No Birds Sang" about his experiences during the war).

Now, the war finally over, Duval is Struck off Strength of the H&PER in the field on 16 July 45 and SOS of the Canadian Army Overseas (in the UK) on 6 August 1945. Duval was back in Canada by 7 September 1945 and was honourably discharged at Toronto in May 1946. Going back to when Duval arrived in Italy - on 7 Feb 45 and when he left the operational area on 16 July 45, you can see that he missed qualifying for the 39-45 Star by only 22 days. So the quirk in this group is the presence of two Stars without one of them being the 39-45 Star.

Duval wasn't finished there, however, he was back with the colours in August 1950 and posted to the 2nd Battalion, The Royal Canadian Regiment. He went overseas with them in May of 1951 and was wounded by gunshot in July '51 - however he was able to return to duty. During its time in Korea, 2 RCR saw quite a bit of action. In addition to the constant patrolling, that was a daily reality for the infantry in Korea, 2 RCR was involved in the heavy fighting at Chail-li and Songguk Spur. Duval returned to Canada with the rest of his battalion in May of 1952 and received his discharge in August of that year.

[Geoff Reeves]

Moving on to the Great War, here is the 1914-15 Trio to 2868 Pte Joseph Collins, The Queen's (Royal West Surrey) Regiment.

Joseph Collins was born in the small town of Lewknor, Oxfordshire, on September 12th, 1897 to Robert and Emma Collins.

Life was not easy because, by the age of 13, Joseph and his older brother Charles were already working to support their parents and 5 other siblings; Joseph as a farm labourer at 5/6 a week. By 1912, it would seem that Joseph had had enough and wanted out of his surroundings. Luckily, for him, it seems that a Major in the Queen's Own Oxfordshire Hussars had taken an interest in the boy, and the earliest documentation I have of Joseph Collins' existence is a request, on Oxon. Hussars' letterhead (dated 15 Feb 1912), from Major Codington to the Secretary of the Gordon Boys' Home for a Form of Application.

The application is received and sent back with this note from Major Codington, once again on QOOH letterhead. I think it bears reproducing in this space:

Feb 24, 1912

Dear Sir,

I here-with enclose application form also a letter from the boys Schoolmaster, the boy is a very steady & hard working lad & I think is deserving of help. The plain facts of case are these, the father is an old soldier (The East Surrey Regiment) & you will see by the form of application is in receipt of a pension & earning 13/- a week but both he & his wife are great drunkards & every penny that they earn or that this boy or his brother earn is squandered in drink. The boy is very anxious to get away from his present surroundings & to join the Army if possible. If you think a deserving case & can get this lad admitted I shall be more than thankful.

Your faithfully etc.

To this day the school still exists, now known as The Gordon School in Woking, Surrey. It was founded as the National Memorial to General Gordon of Khartoum.

The school in the early part of the 20th century seems to have been based on a military model. Joseph joined the school on 18 March 1912 was given number 2568 (which, you will notice, is very close to his eventual regimental number). Over the next year and a half he appears in the School's defaulter's book 3 times, for such things as being late coming back from a football match and misconduct in the tailor's shop. Typical kids stuff!

When war broke out in Aug. 1914 it seems Joseph, now 17, was eager to go. On 2 October 1914, Joseph Collins attested to the 6th (Reserve) Bn of The Queen's (Royal West Surrey Regt) at Guildford. He was 5'3 1/2" tall with a good physical development and the vision in his left eye was described as "not very good".

After completing his recruit training, 2868 Pte Joseph Collins was posted to the 2/4th Bn of The Queen's at Croyden, in April 1915, and given regimental number 206477. The battalion embarked from Devonport on July 17th and arrived in Port Said, Egypt, as part of the MEF, on August 4th. The next day the battalion, and Joseph Collins, found themselves encamped in Alexandria.

From here the Collins story gets a bit muddled. His service papers are part of the Burnt Document series and many parts are quite hard to read or completely obliterated. The battalion found itself in Gallipoli by mid-August and on operations on the Western Frontier of Egypt in December of 1915. I think it's quite likely that Pte Collins served in Gallipoli - as the record doesn't indicate attachement elsewhere, but on 4 Dec 1915, while his comrades were on the Western Frontier, Collins found himself at Signalling school (where is unclear). He qualified as a Pioneer Signaller on 22 January 1916 and was attached to the 159th Brigade's Signal Section on the 15th of April. He embarked with that Brigade to points unknown (it looks like Mesopotamia but I can't really make it out and I don't think the 159th Bde was ever there) on July 7th and returned to Alexandria exactly a month later.

Once returned it seems that he was attached to the 53rd Signal Company, RE until an illness in February 1917 sent him to hospital in Cairo for about 3 weeks. After his release he was attached to the Base Signals in Cairo until, on 25 July 1917, he decided to make it official and transferred to the 2nd Home Counties Field RE (T.F.) as a Pioneer Signaller with the Royal Engineers number 535852. At this time, 2 years and 7 months into his enlistment, our Joseph was listed at 5'8", and his girth when fully expanded had gone from 33 to 371/2". Seems army food agreed with him! From there on in it seems that Pnr. Collins was posted to the Base Signal Depot in Cairo.

Unfortunately, no matter how many times I reread the photocopies of the damaged documents, I can't see when Pnr. Collins returned to England and when he was released from service. Hopefully I'll be able to decipher it one day, but for now, his story ends here.

[Geoff Reeves]

The Reverse of the Collins Trio.

[Geoff Reeves]

Finally - a family grouping. These are my Grandfather's medals.

William George Reeves was born in London (Kennington) on 5 March 1888. He studied to be a carpenter at King Edward's School, Wounley Hill , but left at aged 16 to go to sea. He returned two years later and in mid-1906, having seen the light, decided to leave the life of a mariner behind and join the army. He attested to The Queen's (Royal West Surrey Regiment), given Regimental number 8846 and was posted to the 2nd Battalion. Between 1906 and 1914 the 2nd Battalion was well-travelled. Enjoying such postings as Gibraltar (1910-1912), Bermuda (1912-1914) and South Africa. It was in South Africa that the 2nd The Queen's, and my Grandfather (now a Serjeant), found themselves in August, 1914. On the declaration of war with Germany, the Battalion promptly marched back to Cape Town and onto troop ships back to England. After a period of encampment in the New Forest the Battalion, as part of the 22nd Brigade, 7th Division, embarked for Flanders and Sjt. W.G. Reeves arrived in Belgium on 4 October 1914.

They found themselves in the thick of things fairly quickly and by the end of October found themselves fighting on the Ypres-Menin road near a town called Gheluvelt. On 31 October 1914 the German attacks were particularly intense, communication lines were cut and my Grandfather volunteered himself as a message runner. For this he was awarded the Distinguished Conduct Medal. By the second week of November Sjt W.G. Reeves had been wounded and captured - just another one of the 676 casualties that the Battalion had suffered in the 3 weeks they had been in Flanders. He spent the remainder of the war as a prisoner. He made 3 escape attempts, none of them particularly successful, although he did remain at large for over a week at one stretch. Ultimately he was sent to work the salt mines near Salzburg, Austria. After being repatriated my Grandfather was sent to Russia, but I have no idea what kind of service he saw there and I'm not sure to whom he was attached - as The Queen's did not send any battalions there. Hopefully something will come to light when I get his SR. After that he saw service with the Depot, the 4th Battalion (where he was the RSM) and the 5th Battalion (where he was CSM of C Company in Bermondsey). He retired in 1938 but answered the call again in September 1939 when he became S/6076192 WO1 W.G. Reeves, DCM, Royal Army Service Corps. He was the RSM of a supply Depot in Surrey, but his health had not been good. My Grandfather died, on active service, on 16 January 1940, aged 51. He is buried at Brookwood Military Cemetary.

His DCM was gazetted on 16 February 1915 - it was the 2nd DCM to the Battalion and the 7th to the Regiment during the First World War. Eventually there were 158 DCM's won by The Queen's in the Great War:

For conspicuous gallantry in delivering messages under very heavy shell fire, and, although wounded, remaining at his post.

Missing from his group is the War Medal of the Second World War, to which he is entitled, but which was never claimed. We are currently in the process of claiming this last medal for my Grandfather, but it will take a while.

Edited November 14, 2005 by Geoff Reeves

[Geoff Reeves]

My Grandfather as an RSM in the early 1930's.

[notned]

Fantastic Geoff!

you must be so proud to have a Grandfather who actually won a decoration for distinguished conduct!

Thanks for telling us his story!

Cheers

Paul

[Geoff Reeves]

His entry in Volume I of "Deeds That Thrill the Empire"

On the morning of October 31st, 1914, an attack in overwhelming force developed against the British at Gheluvelt. Telephone wires communicating with the rear were cut by the enemy's shell-fire, and messages had therefore to be carried by hand. Sergeant William George Reeves, of the 2nd Battalion, Royal West Surrey Regiment (The Queen's), repeatedly made the journey from the firing-line to Battalion Headquarters over ground which was being furiously shelled. On returning from delivering a message he was wounded, but remained at his post till the enemy were beaten off. He was awarded the D.C.M. for conspicuous gallantry.

Edited November 14, 2005 by Geoff Reeves

[Guest Rick Research]

3258 Sepoy Milkha Singh, 1-69th Punjabis apparently did not serve overseas during the war, but was dispatched to the Northwest Frontier for the 1919 Afghan War, taking part in the siege of Thal

[attachmentid=15691][attachmentid=15692]

Thal was remarkable for being the ONLY occasion aircraft engaged artillery elephants in battle.

The group was obtained from Ontario, so I suspect Singh may have emigrated there. there was little collector interest in "native" groups like this 3 decades ago, and far too many went into the pot duing the Hunt brothers' silver craze. I don't know if the suspension-- obviously missing a cotter pin-- is FOR a medal pair or a ribbon bar.

[Guest Rick Research]

2925 A(lbert) E(dward) Harris, single, Methodist, draper, of Vaughan Place off Rundall Street, Adelaide, South Australia, enlisted 19 July 1916 in 50th Battalion of the A.I.F.

[attachmentid=15697]

He shipped overseas on HMAT "Afric" 6 November 1916, serving in France, but was "returned to Australia" 31 October 1917-- I suspect because he was actually underage and he'd been combed out as casualties rose. (I have a special interest in this Battalion, since my Swedish great-uncle Carl was killed with 50 Bn in its last day of fighting, three days after finally arriving after long Egyptian sojourning at the front in 1918.)

The little "watch fob" was given by the government of South Australia to school and working children in commemoration of the victory celebrations in 1919. It was the subject of vicious political skullduggery in the supply contracting, distribution, and accounting of funds, and was contrary to intent not presented simultaneously in all places due to the influenza pandemic then raging, bad weather, neglect, and malfeasance. Some children were given several (and gleefully sold them on the spot-- which is how Harris may have come by his-- it was NOT intended for veterans) while others received none. As usual the "grown ups" responsible simply walked away from it all. This was supposed to be a permanent aide memoire for the last generation that would ever have lived through war (!!!), but instead stands as a monument to political thuggery and disgraceful (sweets funds embezzled etc) public behaviour. Even a kiddie's souvenir tells a tale!

[Michael Johnson]

There's quite a story with this group. Five medals, bought from four different sources. I bought the Star, then was told that a shop had "maybe an M.S.M." Then after a time I found the N.G.S. on Gene Ursual's list. Then I kicked myself for getting deeper into a broken group. One evening I was at a friend's and he mentioned s dealer was trying to get hold of me, and was I interested in a pair to an Asistant Surgeon?

Assistant Surgeon Asquith, Indian Medical Department. He was on R.I.M.S. Minto for the Persian Gulf. He was still there during the first part of the war, sometimes ashore at telegraph stations in the Gulf. Then France and Belgium to mid 1915. Mesopotamia and Egypt. No sign of an I.G.S. or G.S.M. in his war services (no G.S.M. on his Medal card). On reason I am also sure he doesn't have an I.G.S. is the replacement suspender on his L.S.G.C. At the time he was awarde it, the medal had a non-swivel scroll suspender, and that would have been very difficult to break. My guess is that he wanted it to match his Naval G.S. and B.W.M.

The Naval G.S. is renamed, and the rank has been corrected (or perhaps "adjusted" is more correct. to 2nd Cl Asst. Sgn. which he didn't make until the 1920s. Those and the Star are all impressed in the same

[Michael Johnson]

2701 A/L/Dfr Ghulam Rasul Khan 9th Horse (Khan only appears on the Star)

He is a Duffadar on all the other medals. The I.M.S.M. is almost certainly for Cambrai.

I bought this little gem for 80 pounds about 22 years ago.

[Stogieman]

I was searching through my archives and finally came across photos of the one Brit Gallantry group that floated through here!

[Stogieman]

This was a mini/"mess dress" board. Quality was superb with the MC & others in real silver. The mini bar and mini MID palm were exquisite...

[Guest Darrell]

Very nice guys ... been on the road and havent been able to really read the forums. I like the way everyone is pitching in