[Troy Tempest]

Check this out! I found it on a Berlin auction house catalog, does anyone know why this particular medal is so rare/exclusive to justify a starting price of 40,000 euros? I tried to upload the photos here but they won't fit so here is a link:

To save people time, I've removed the link & I've uploaded the images for you (see below).

Cheers
Don

40,000 euros seems like a lot of money to me! Is it a one off or a special award of some sorts?

This post has been edited by Scowen: 15 August 2007 - 13:24

[Alex K]

Hi, if genuine, and it looks like it my untrained eye, it is a VERY rare Party Award, given out less than 10 times (From Memory) always personally by Adolf.?"Edit"?It?was?cynically?called?the?"Dead?Hero?Order"?as?it?was?nearly?always?handed?out?postumously,
two notable people who received it after death were Fritz Todt and Reinhard Heydrich. I believe that Artur Axmann received one at the very end of the war, he survived. Rudolf Souval, a war-time manufacturer of awards, was making copies of these in the 1950's, these are also now fetching rather large amounts of money, and they are fake!!

regards

Alex

This post has been edited by Alex K: 15 August 2007 - 13:20

[Scowen]

To save people time, I've removed your the link & I've uploaded the images for you.

The award as I'm sure you know is often referred to as the "Order of the Dead" this is mainly due to the fact most of them were awarded posthumously.

Here is a list of know recipients:

Fritz Todt (posthumous), February 11, 1942
Reinhard Heydrich (posthumous), June 9, 1942
Adolf H?hnlein (posthumous), June 22, 1942
Viktor Lutze (posthumous), May 8, 1943
Adolf Wagner (posthumous), April 17, 1944
Artur Axmann, April 26, 1945
Josef B?rckel (committed suicide in November 1944), October 3, 1944
Rudolf Schmundt (posthumous), October 7, 1944
Konstantin Hierl, February 24, 1945
Karl Hanke (killed during an POW camp escape attempt, June 1945), April 12, 1945
Karl Holz (killed in action, or may have committed suicide, in April 1945), April 19, 1945

As you can see, a rare award. One was recently up for sale in this country for a figure of around ?30,000 if I remember correctly.

Cheers
Don

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[Scowen]

reverse

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[Paul R]

reverse

Is the particular photoed example attibuted?

[BURGERHAUS]

Is the particular photoed example attibuted?

Hmmm. If Ihad 40,000 Euros of disposable funds I would put a nice down-payment on a home on Cliff Island. I am sure you know where I mean Paul. Robert

[ccj]

Hmmm. If Ihad 40,000 Euros of disposable funds I would put a nice down-payment on a home on Cliff Island. I am sure you know where I mean Paul. Robert

I'll bet there are no photos of this decoration in wear!!!

[Hauptman]

Hi, if genuine, and it looks like it my untrained eye, it is a VERY rare Party Award, given out less than 10 times (From Memory) always personally by Adolf.?"Edit"?It?was?cynically?called?the?"Dead?Hero?Order"?as?it?was?nearly?always?handed?out?postumously,
two notable people who received it after death were Fritz Todt and Reinhard Heydrich. I believe that Artur Axmann received one at the very end of the war, he survived. Rudolf Souval, a war-time manufacturer of awards, was making copies of these in the 1950's, these are also now fetching rather large amounts of money, and they are fake!!

regards

Alex

I'm not positive but mine might be one of those Souval's:

http://gmic.co.uk/in...showtopic=11532

No idea what they run now... but I remember when I saw my first one it was at a show in Ft. Lauderdale twenty some odd years ago and it was up for $800.

Dan

[Alex K]

Hi Hauptman I'm no expert but L/58 was Souval's wartime number I believe, so it may unfortunately be one of his post war efforts, maybe more knowledgeable persons can confirm or otherwise, I actually wouldn't mind one for myself a a space filler

regards

Alex

[Stan]

The Neck Order shown was auctioned by Andreas Thies in December 2004 and had a reserve price of ?25,000 + 23% commission etc. His list of realised prices showed that it was sold for ?20,000 which I presume was a typo. It has a lead seal from Lothar Hartung who examined the piece in 1988. I am fairly certain that this was an original example.

Warlord recently was selling another piece through Stirnpanzer for ?32,000. I have exampined this piece and it is 100% original in my opinion and is identical to the one in my own collection which has been examined by many experts from around the world.

Stan

[Stan]

Obverse and reverse of my Order.

Stan

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[Hauptman]

Hi Hauptman I'm no expert but L/58 was Souval's wartime number I believe, so it may unfortunately be one of his post war efforts, maybe more knowledgeable persons can confirm or otherwise, I actually wouldn't mind one for myself a a space filler

regards

Alex

Hi Alex,

I do believe it is actually... Jack Angolia got it for me at a very good price many, many moons ago. It's been one of my prized pieces ever since. And it brings back very fond memories of several extremely pleasant visits to his home and museum. It's definitely a nice one to have. I believe there is one place that carries them but I can't for the life of me remember who it was, where or for how much... athough I believe it was a few hundred dollars. I found it on a google search at one point or another. If I find it again I'll be happy to pass the info along.

I've seen the Third classes (the breast badge) for about $50 or thereabouts on Ebay on occassion. They come in red cases which are not anything like original German TR cases. The gold on them is way too shiney and if you compare it with my First class you'll definitely see how bad it looks by comparison.

http://gmic.co.uk/in...showtopic=11533

Sad thing is I was given the opportunity to buy a cased original by Jack way back when for $5,000. At the time I could have easily afforded it. But I just couldn't see having that much money tied up in a badge which would sit on a shelf in the den so I passed it up. In fact that's when he offered to find me a nice copy, hence the First class I have. But at times I wish I'd gotten the original as well... as Lord only knows what it would be worth now.

Dan

[Alex K]

Hi Dan, glad to see that you are pleased with your piece, even though it may not be an original, I understand that Souval 1950 pieces are becoming collector items in themselves, I'm sure that it's value will actually increase, shame you passed up on an original, but I have to agree that at the time it was a lot of money to have tied up in a badge sitting in a box or cupboard, In those days, the value of such items was more was more subjective and little certainty that values would rocket as they are now doing. I've also seen the 3rd classes for sale, and the quality is nowhere as good as the original or a Souval,

regards

Alex

[Alex K]

To save people time, I've removed your the link & I've uploaded the images for you.

The award as I'm sure you know is often referred to as the "Order of the Dead" this is mainly due to the fact most of them were awarded posthumously.

Here is a list of know recipients:

Fritz Todt (posthumous), February 11, 1942
Reinhard Heydrich (posthumous), June 9, 1942
Adolf H?hnlein (posthumous), June 22, 1942
Viktor Lutze (posthumous), May 8, 1943
Adolf Wagner (posthumous), April 17, 1944
Artur Axmann, April 26, 1945
Josef B?rckel (committed suicide in November 1944), October 3, 1944
Rudolf Schmundt (posthumous), October 7, 1944
Konstantin Hierl, February 24, 1945
Karl Hanke (killed during an POW camp escape attempt, June 1945), April 12, 1945
Karl Holz (killed in action, or may have committed suicide, in April 1945), April 19, 1945

As you can see, a rare award. One was recently up for sale in this country for a figure of around ?30,000 if I remember correctly.

Cheers
Don

Only 11 were actually awarded, But would anyone like to guess or estimate how many were actually likely to have been made? I assume that they were not made as one-off's when Hitler decided to award one, or am I wrong, and they were actually individually made to order (No pun intended), clearly there are some on the market which were not attributed.

regards

Alex

[Stan]

Alex,

These Orders were produced by Wilhem Deumer and a small number exist which were not awarded to individuals. The example I have was at one time cased but the case was damaged and discarded by a previous owner.

Stan

[Alex K]

Hi Stan thanks for the reply, I thought that a small additional number must have been made.

regards

Alex