Guest Rick Research Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 I have a couple of medal bars which appear to be original and not parts pieces. I have always wondered what research might turn up... proof that they ARE 100% original, unaltered bars... or just parts thrown together?[attachmentid=10900] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 It's hard to FIND medal bars with original old non replaced ribbons any more, so I have some hope... BTW, the two middle "ribs" are NOT later aluminum ones, they are white metal with the other brass parts.[attachmentid=10901]But... Red Banner 176,859 falls into the range of 3 November 1944 mostly 20+ years long service awards, which doesn't seem to match Military Merit Medal 2,689,507 from 1946. Is the ORB a coincidental "real" award like one of Colonel Maguta's two issued in November 1944, and the MMM was a 10 years service award? Or was the ORB a long service award and the MMM for something unimportant?Do these even belong on the bar together? Only research will tell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 Now, do THESE two MMMs really go together? Is this the top row for a minor merit award and long service group, or the second row from somebody with five Red Banners above?[attachmentid=10902]I actually got both of these bars together... so I wonder if the above WENT with this pair below, as we often see mounted rows on M1945 dress tunics?[attachmentid=10903] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 MMM 1,174,279 dates from about April 1944, and MMM 3,173,062 from 1947-- so possibly one was for minor war merit and the other for 10 years service...[attachmentid=10906]I guess I'll never know...[attachmentid=10905]Without getting an MMM researched....but what to do, what to do? Ask for BOTH citations and hope they are for the same man? Or roll the dice and ask for one? And what if I pick wrong, and THAT medal has been replaced on the 4 medal bar, but the other THREE medals did belong? Indecision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Becker Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 Rick,the first bar is exactly, what i was talking about. It shouldn?t be too difficoult to find such a simple bar, one should think. Gerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris S Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 Nice groups Rick........Here is a partisan group which rings true.Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris S Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 The back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris S Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 The partisan is a tadge worn....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris S Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 This other nice little pair often makes me wonder if they did not survive the war...no victory over Germany?Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris S Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 The Back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris S Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 This is an odd bar which is interesting as it has a Lenin centenary medal mounted on a five sided suspension....could have been put together but has a well worn consistent look...Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris S Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 The Back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris S Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 I don't normally buy larger groups without documents but this bar had two orders of the Patriotic War 1st class and two red stars...these I will definitely get researched and I believe worth taking a chance with.Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris S Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 The Back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris S Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 Interesting stamp on the bar.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 Yup... all it takes is a couple of good research results in a row and we start to feel like doing ALL of them. I have seen a number of bars in the last 10 years with the Lenin Centennial mounted tha way...but only for sale Out West... never being WORN by old veterans on TV news or magazine pictures. Maybe authorized post USSR? Fashion statement or souvenir trade parts bars? I haven' t seen any senior-enough officers to have gotten one back then, photographed now to see how the Federation forces are wearing these now, either. Probably all retired, 1970 being 35 years ago.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimj Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 I have a couple of bars I have in my "maybe" pile. First is a bar that I am 95% sure it's made up. Ribbons are very clean and mounted on a late Al-bar. But the biggest problem with this is the wear on each of the medals. Bravery has normal wear. Partisan is almost worn out. Three remaining ones are almost mint.Why would he have such a poor condition Partisan if he took so much care of his other medals...Ribbons came out very light in the pic. I blame that on the Scandinavian light... /Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimj Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Second bar has more going for it. But is it good... No paper work /Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimj Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 One of the ORB were suspention -> screwback -> suspention. Why... /Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Kim-- what are the serial numbers on the Red Banners? Is that A BRASS or BRONZE screw on the first ORB-- NOT silver? The M1958 long service Medal doesn't belong either in that position or on a bar with no 1958 Jubilee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimj Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 ORB are 201 954 and 532 230. The screw could be from a badge, it's not silver. The "conversion" was not made at the mint, probably at a shop of some sort. My guess is that he slaughtered some kind of badge and used the parts, the plate and screw, to make a screw back Red Banner. Maybe he like that look better when he had few awards. When he got more medals he went with the "bar-look". If this is a bar for one guy...By 1958 you mean: Red Army 40 years? Yes, the 15 year service medal is in the wrong place. But perhaps there was a second bar with jubilee, Red Army and Revolution medals etc.. And maybe he more proud of 15 years of service than of birthday medals? But I have a feeling that something is sligthly wrong with it.Here is a hero that also liked his awards better as screw backs./Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Becker Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Kim,i guess, the screw on the back of your first Red Banner is only to avoid, that they crash together all the time and damage the enamel.The combination looks like it could have been put together. Do you still have this bar? And do you plan to research it? Btw, yes, 1958 means the 40 years Red Army Medal.Gerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyFCO Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 If it was researched, I'd bet that he was a pilot. If anything that "converted-to" screwback Red Banner should have a good citation. His Red Banner might be a flight hours award instead of a long service award. It would not surprise me if the Irreproachable Service 2nd class was legitimately his... Say he joined in 1943, received an unnumbered MM for 10 years of service in 53, received a Red Banner for wartime actions which was worn on his uniform in flight and then received a second one for long flight hours, and received his Irreproachable Service in 1958 for 15 years of service. When he died, his family threw the bar together without concern for precidence for his funeral (have owned them like that before) and then someone in the family sold the awards not long after. A plausible story... Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimj Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Gerd: Yes, I still have the bar. I doubt the screw did much good mounted with the other awards. My guess is that it was remade to be worn as a single screwback order. Later perhaps mounted with the others. Why? Who knows... it's just a guess. Dave: I like the way you make the bar plausible. I know that it's somewhat of a long shot that it's "real" but then again stranger thing have happened. Regulation and soviet style award-wearing are not always what you would expect.Ohh, I almost forgot. I have ordered reserch for the first RB. Now it's just the loooooong wait for results to come in. Is it or ...... But I promise that I will post what comes from it./Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 How long ago did you order it?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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