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Bilco

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Everything posted by Bilco

  1. Bilco

    FAKES!

    Not the medal - the box! On eBay at the moment is a US Vic in a box with this label ... It's actually a WW II Victory medal box, with a bit of paper stuck over the end of the description to make it look like WW I ... Item # 11332447517 - but hurry - bids are up to $19 already ... Bill
  2. I have a Portuguese WW1 Victory Medal ... It has a buckle on the ribbon, which makes it too wide to fit in the box. I assume that the buckle was put on after the issue of the medal, and I have seen pictures of other Portuguese medals with buckles on the ribbon. Why are they put on? Is it just a piece of bling that the recipient fancied, or is it significant in some way? Any help gratefully received. Bill
  3. Many thanks Paul. I contacted the Academia Falerística de Portugal to ask about buckles on Portuguese medals. Senhor Paulo Estrela of the Academia sent this reply: The buckle, a Portuguese type device, usually is a part of Portuguese decorations; but after 1971 regulation Portuguese military medals lost it and nowadays almost none is award with. So, for Portugal’s Victory Medal a bronze buckle is required according with regulation. After one year, it was decided to issue a small silver star (to be wear on the buckle’s center) to distinguished the combatants from the so-called non-combatants veterans. However, many combatants never applied to receive it, even because it was decided after many people returned to their civilian status. So, there we have it - all Portuguese WW1 Victory medals should have the buckle ... Bill
  4. I contacted the Academia Falerística de Portugal to ask about buckles on Portuguese medals. Senhor Paulo Estrela of the Academia sent this reply: The buckle, a Portuguese type device, usually is a part of Portuguese decorations; but after 1971 regulation Portuguese military medals lost it and nowadays almost none is award with. So, for Portugal’s Victory Medal a bronze buckle is required according with regulation. After one year, it was decided to issue a small silver star (to be wear on the buckle’s center) to distinguished the combatants from the so-called non-combatants veterans. However, many combatants never applied to receive it, even because it was decided after many people returned to their civilian status. So, there we have it - all Portuguese WW1 Victory medals should have the buckle ... Bill
  5. Gentlemen, I regularly look through the US vics offered on eBay, and over time I’ve noticed that in some cases the suspension knob seems to be very insecurely attached to the planchet, with a very small area of solder. I started to look at all the examples offered on eBay, as well as those on this thread and in my collection, and I think I’ve identified 3 variants of the knob-to-planchet soldering: Type 1 – the solder bead extends almost the full width of the knob, or even wider. Type 2 – the solder bead extends over approximately half the width of the knob. Type 3 – the solder bead is very narrow. Having identified these three types I started to wonder if they were just due to inconsistencies in the manufacturing process, or could they be attributed to one or other of the 3 firms that received contracts to produce the medals for the US Government. In an attempt to investigate this possibility I started to collect photos in which the medal and its box can be seen together. Now, I know that sellers can ‘marry’ an empty box with a medal in the expectation of getting a higher price, but I hoped that if I had a good number of examples I might be able to detect some trends. The results for the examples I’ve collected so far are shown in this table: Manufacturer Type 1 Type 2 Type 3 Total No % No % No % No % Art Metal Works 5 62.5 8 27.5 7 50 20 39.2 S G Adams 3 37.5 12 41.4 2 14.3 17 33.3 Jos. Meyer 9 31.1 5 31.1 14 27.5 Total 8 15.7 29 56.8 14 27.5 51 So, it seems that there are not many Type 1 in the sample, most of which are in Art Metal Works boxes and none in Meyer boxes; the most common is the Type 2, with most in Adams boxes and the rest evenly split; and most of the Type 3 are in Art Metal Works boxes. It has to be said that the Type 2 were sometimes bordering on one or other of the other Types, so the result is somewhat subjective. Maybe it does all come down to inconsistencies in the manufacturing process after all. Of course, the number of examples I’ve collected is quite small, and the analysis is offered in a light-hearted spirit. However, I’d be interested to hear your views, and maybe if you have examples of boxed US vics where the provenance is known, and you can be sure that the box and medal belong together, you might like to post pictures to see if it fits my analysis – or not …
  6. Just acquired is a Portugal Official Type 2, together with the lid of the box from the firm Frederico Costa of Lisbon However, the buckle on the ribbon barely fits into the lid, and would definitely not fit into the bottom half if it were present. So, I'm wondering if the buckle is a piece of bling fitted by the awardee after receiving the medal. Maybe that's why there isn't a bottom half to the box - the medal no longer fitted, so it was discarded. I'd be interested in any thoughts or insights you Gentlemen may have on this. Bill
  7. Something a bit different on eBay today ... According to the seller the medal was to a recruiter. Item #153138460248 Bill
  8. Hi Oliver - a very nice named example. Congratulations! Bill
  9. Hi Gents, In post # 62 I showed a French-made reproduction of the Czech vic with ball suspension and the Arthus Bertrand triangle mark (incorrectly identified in the post as Chobillon) and BRONZE on the edge. My latest acquisition is this version, also with ball suspension, but with no markings on the edge ... obverse reverse. As bought it was rather dirty and had dark patches on the reverse. I cleaned it with a non-toxic, non-acidic, non-corrosive, non-caustic, and non-abrasive cleaner, which took off a reddish tint and showed some verdigris under the dark patches. I'll treat those next. It had a modern ribbon as bought, and I'm sourcing a French ribbon for it. Any thoughts on a maker? Bill
  10. Searching a bit wider, I've found mention of several Arthus Bertrand Portugese vic reproductions on FIM, so I guess it's not new. Perhaps the really rare one is the Chobillon version. I wonder if Laslo saw one with a triangle mark that was as hard to read as mine, and just assumed it was Chobillon ... Bill
  11. Hi Gents, My latest acquisition is this Portugal Repro Type 1 - or is it?? For sure it has the BRONZE and a triangle on the edge ... ... but the design in the triangle is hard to make out. I tried scanning the edge from different angles and these are the clearest images I can manage ... ... and it seems to me I can see a star at the top of the triangle and a circle in the centre of the bottom. That would seem to be this mark ... .. which makes it a product of Arthus Bertrand! Laslo says that the Repro Type 1 is by Chobillon - which should have the triangle with AC stamp, and this isn't that stamp. I have one by Delande with the square stamp with a bee, also not in Laslo. So, have I found another unknown Portugal Repro?? All comments welcome.
  12. Bilco

    U.S Medal Online Resources

    Hi John, Folks here should know http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/forum/83-medals-decorations/ Bill
  13. Herewith ... OK - I get it - no VILLA! And no dots!! Bill
  14. Many thanks Macchiatera72 - herewith ... Bill
  15. Hi macchianera72 - if there is no signature (by which I guess you mean the manufacturer's name) how do we know it is by Lorioli & Castelli? I have one, but always understood that the manufacturer is unknown. Bill
  16. My latest acquisition is this - something a bit different. Is it a coin or is it a medal? Laslo has it in his book as “So-Called Dollar” Type 2. It’s made of copper, and measures 36mm in diameter. The planchet is thinner than the Type 2 vic, and there is no suspension. The seller and Laslo both give a reference number of HK-902, referring to a book called “So-Called Dollars” by Harold E. Hibler and Charles V. Kappen. The contents of this book are viewable on-line and the page for this item is at https://www.so-calleddollars.com/Events/World_War_I_Victory_Medals.html The reference also mentions the same item in bronze with the reference number HK-901. I have seen a few suspension-less bronze US vics offered on eBay, but always assumed that they were Type 2 with the suspension removed! Laslo says that some 5-20 of the copper version are known and 51-250 of the bronze version. The obverse and reverse are identical to the official medal, so it is assumed that the official dies were used to produce them, but the manufacturer is not known. The quality of the striking is very good. The edge looks uniformly smooth. In 2005 a query was raised on the blog E-Sylum (which appears no longer to be around) of what was thought might be a ‘trial piece’, made in copper (The E-Sylum: Volume 8, Number 41, September 25, 2005, Article 16). The reply, from a gentleman called Dick Johnson, was rather scathing, and called the piece “junk”! He seems to link it to the firm of Aronson of Newark, who got a government contract to produce some of the Official vics, but their output was said to be of poor quality. These pieces have the name “So-Called Dollar” as this is the name collectors give to exposition, commemorative and monetary medals of a similar size to a silver dollar coin. Whatever it is, it’s an interesting addition to my vic collection Recently, a ‘solid-gold’ vic was offered on eBay – BIN $49,500.00. It had the suspension as normal, but had an HK ref of 902a, as if it was a so-called dollar – it isn’t in the book. The seller said that it had 22K on the edge, and it’s the only one of its type - ‘not even the Smithsonian has one ...’ Unfortunately, he didn’t ship to the UK …. https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/989589/interesting-sc-on-ebay-of-all-places Bill
  17. The first medal in this group appears to be of French design, but it's with two Portuguese medals. Is it French or Portuguese - or something else?? The other medals are: The other two medals are: "Medalha Centenário do Marechal Francisco Marcelino de Souza Aguiar, 1855 – 1955" or "Medalha Souza Aguiar" in Bronze created by June 10, 1955 and ordered by the Ministry of Justice and Internal Affairs, to commemorate the first centenary of the birth of Marechal Souza Aguiar. and Marine Rescue Silver award. Portuguese name: Philanthropy and Charity Medal of Relief Institute to Castaways. Issued by the Shipwreck Relief Institute (ISN), which is the Portuguese Institute for Lifesaving. Such awards are usually for rescue at sea and come in few variations and 3 classes. Originally established in 1908 and revised in 1913 with additional types. Presented here is award with inscription: 'Philanthropy - Charity'. Most wonderful decoration, rarely awarded in any class. Bill
  18. SAI could be South African Infantry, or South African Irish Regiment, although the National Archives site show the abbreviations for these units differently https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwiwicjUtZbaAhXHe8AKHag0ALYQFggnMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationalarchives.gov.uk%2Fdocuments%2Frecords%2Fabbreviations-in-world-war-one-medal-index-cards-unit.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2F7XSDOgHy8GRlugku0bu- This source also shows a unit called Rhodesian South African Infantry Brigade, abreviation RHODNS. S.A.I. BGDE. This is a lot to get on the edge of a medal after number, rank and name, so may have been shortened to SAI? The link downloads a .pdf file. Bill
  19. Chris - have a look at this thread http://sagongs.ipbhost.com/topic/6572-877-havildar-sher-zaman-66th-punjabis-msm-pair/ Same regiment, so maybe someone there can help ... Bill
  20. Bilco

    Medal to identify

    Many thanks, Bill
  21. Bilco

    Medal to identify

    Hi Lambert, Another possibility is a medal dedicated to Saint Cecilia, if your group is more related to music, it would be consistent with that. May I post the picture of the three medals on another fourm to see if there is any further identification? Bill
  22. Hi Lambert, Yes, the scene on the reverse of your medal has some diiferences to the ones at the Maritime Museum. The medal was made by Spink, and the Museum web site shows an example with a simple wire loop suspension http://prints.rmg.co.uk/artist/27488/spink-son-ltd Maybe you should contact Spinksand ask if yours is one of theirs or a copy by someone. https://www.spink.com/departments/medals.asp Best wishes, Bill
  23. Hi Lambert, There is an example of this medal in the Royal Museums Greenwich with description. However, the ones illustrated don't have the suspension loop. They are made of gilded bronze, white metal, pewter, or tin. http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/38637.html http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/40438.html http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/40219.html http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/38639.html Google Images has several pictures of the medal, all without the suspension yours has https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=centenary+of+the+battle+of+trafalgar+medal&client=firefox-b-ab&dcr=0&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj9_PfBrtXYAhWsAMAKHXi-ACEQsAQIQg&biw=1600&bih=720#imgrc=_ Best wishes, Bill
  24. Hello Oliver, That looks like a French-made repro, as shown in Laslo. He gives diameter of 37mm, and says that there 'might' be MADE IN FRANCE on the edge, so its absence isn't a problem. Bill
  25. Very nice, macchianera72, and in much better shape than mine ... Bill
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