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Gentleman's Military Interest Club


Old Contemptible
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Posts posted by Spasm

  1. Martin

    The newer split pins (1940ish - they may be dated but probably best not to play with them too much to see) are holding the finished colour better than the older helmet. The steel alloy of the later split pins never seem to rust as much as the steel helmet so the paint looks better.

    Roller buckles are pretty rare. Some were manufactured through the 20s and clip onto the helmet bale/d ring with a steel clip and are sewn on at the other side. These are normally only found on transitional helmets (M16/M17etc), sometimes used on early M35s. All chin straps were basically the same from 1939 on, 13 holes I believe. They started off all alluminium, then most became steel in 1940 with the quality falling away later in the war.

    Chinstraps broke a lot, due to quality, hanging from webbing and general use so were replaced fairly often. Roller buckles are known on all helmet variants (M35/40 and 42) some sewn onto the bales, some made from Belgian or French Adrian straps. So, not unknown and not something to worry about, just a bit more of a life story for the helmet.

    Great helmet to keep.

    I made up the H-RTS230/245, just to see if anyone was actually reading or paying any attention. :unsure:



  2. Martin, yep, I heard, he he.

    No need to touch it, it's great as it is. All part of it's long life story. Nice plain greys are getting harder to find, a keeper for the shelf.

  3. Mike, praise indeed! Thank you.

    It's honestly not that difficult to do as it's really just tracing and painting by numbers, just very time consuming. 

    I have a few German helmets that need a bit of erm....sprucing up. And, with the risk of being outlawed by the collecting community, I may do a similar thread showing how to bring an M35/40/42 back to life.

    Thanks again Mike, all praise is very gratefully received.

  4. Martin

    Thanks my man. Be careful, ball hammers are good for making dents as well, you'll probably be better off with a flat hammer and dolly once you've got the liner out. He he, best of luck with that. 

    Enjoy your time here, it's a pretty cool forum with decent chaps and chapesses.



  5. Hicks - Highlight the link, then right click, then click on 'search google for...' and it'll take you to the link. Pity I don't understand German.

    There's another clever thingy that'll translate but I don't have the iphone app. Come to think of it I don't have an iphone either.

    Yes, seems to be a few memory lapses but still, great to talk to a Leibstandarte veteran, just to hear the loudness of the missing parts.



  6. My opinion, having had a closer look (and to update/continue the thread), it looks like there are 4 layers of paint on this helmet. My guess would be a re-issued helmet (done before the rough grey green was painted on) while un-reinforced liner bands were still being issued and fixed with the brass split pins. The split pins (from your photos) look ok to me. Then the last multi coloured 'Normandy' camo applied over the textured grey later in the war for the battles in Northern Europe.
    My opinion would be a helmet that saw the whole of the war in Europe, probably re-issued just prior to war breaking out in 1939 with a lighter green paint applied over the darker green and a new liner installed (due to the original one being snapped - as the un-reinforced ones did due to carrying on webbing) and the rough grey green applied (as per orders) in March 1940 just prior to the invasion of France. The rest of the war being spent without much use in France in the locker, other than training and parades. Then a short heavy usage when the Allies invaded after having a quick sprayed 'Normandy' three colour camo over the rough grey.
    I think the decal was exposed after the war (but no way of really knowing when - it could have been done by the original trophy hunter in 1944 to show off to his Mum). The rough dark grey green looks to have been hand applied and although the brush strokes do look like they were painted around the decal, some can be seen over the middle of the decal. This rough grey green paint was probably supplied as a paste (similar to winter camo) which was thinned out with petrol. The petrol would have softened the newly applied re-issued and applied decal melting it into the petrol mixed paste. Looking at the remains of the decal (the turn of the shoulder of the wing and the curved bottoms of the feathers) it looks to be what's called an ET style decal. Not unknown on SE made helmets as it is thought that their normal decal supplies were limited during the massive re-issue and manufacture at the start of the war - so they used the more common and available ET style decal. (The double line faults in the ink printing in the decal could also indicate that the decals were being rushed at this time.) When the grey green rough paint was then later removed, it took most of the top layer of decal with it - hence the lack of detail (You can see the pure black background in 'swollen' patches where it has not been removed.)   
    I believe it's a wonderful helmet that has a better life story than a mint DD parade SS that spent it's whole life in a cupboard in Berlin and marched around the Hitler Bunker on the odd outing.
    One to keep I think.

  7. Martin

    Bent split pins point to the liner being removed/replaced - that could have been by anybody from original owner to later owner. Brass pins point to pre 1940 or reuse of the originals.

    I would say that the rough grey green paint has been removed at a later date as some is still evident over the decal rather than being just around the decal. 

    I still really like the helmet, who's to say what happened with the liner. These un-reinforced liner bands split fairly easily so it could have been replaced at any time - and you know what a bugger those split pins are to get in.

    The liner is debatable but I don't think the exposed decal is. 

    Really depends on what it was sold to you as I suppose, but it's a really good camo helmet with a life story to tell.

    Cheers, Steve


  8. Peter,

    Yes, that's what I said, (well maybe not those exact words). I couldn't stay long because they were busy and I was laughing too much.

    So I've done the moulds myself. Having bought the materials for doing moulds etc I can see why the costs are so high. The silicon mix comes in 2 brightly coloured gallon buckets (small amounts just aren't worth the price). You need to be Charles Atlas to get the lids off and then try to figure out how to get the thick gloopy stuff out in small portions to mix. Because it's so thick and difficult to measure it tends to get stuck all over the place and it can't easily be wiped up.

    The casts seem to be coming out ok and the two part mixing of the plastic/resin stuff isn't that bad as it's a bit thinner and easier to handle. Bubbles are an issue and trying to get the casts to look like bronze/brass isn't that easy and seems to depend on luck to get it to come out ok. But I'm getting there.

    The whole process isn't like DIY or building. If you need something you can climb down the ladder and go off to the shed to get that hammer, knife, saw, box of screws that you forgot. The moulding/casting thing needs to be organised, you need to have everything to hand, everything happens so quickly there's no time to go get something - especially cleaning up stuff- as a large piece of hard plastic shaped like a puddle in the middle of the carpet doesn't please the Admin Staff much. (Although it did have a nice bronze sheen to it). I'm sure the mould wasn't leaking when I poured it.

    They should be a lot cheaper then. Plain white casts should be in the region of £30-50 each and painted ones about £100-150 each with the bronze ones in between somewhere. The painted ones will be very limited editions as I can't see me staying interested enough to paint many.




  9. Ah, looks to be 1938 helmet then. 

    The liner split pins look to be brass which points to it being pre 1940. There doesn't seem to be a stamp on the leather liner which puts that post 1937 (although it could of course have been replaced). And an un-reinforced aluminium liner band which dates it pre 1938. And the chin strap clearly dated 1940.

    For info - the aluminium single liner bands were reinforced with two riveted plates in 1938. This was due to the liner snapping by the chinstrap bales when the soldiers carried them on their webbing. The aluminium liner bands were replaced with zinc coated steel ones in 1940. The liner should be stamped on the outside of the righthand side with the manufacturer and year (be careful if you try to have a peek).

    Those Walhalla chaps will give you a lot more info than I can. Let us know how you get on.

    Cheers, Steve


  10. Martin, 

    Looks like you've solved the picture adding and they look pretty good to me. Manufactured by Saxon Emaillerwerke in Lauter.

    Can you confirm the batch number, is it 3568 or 5568? Does it have a dome stamp (an ink stamp right in the soffit)?

    Batch 3568 would put it right at the start of the 1938 dome stamps and just as the reinforced aluminium bands start.

    Batch 5568 would sort of confirm the rough texture green grey paint and a 1940 manufacture date.

    Looks like the chinstrap is also stamped. Nice helmet.



  11. Martin

    Would be good to see some more photos. It looks to have the right "pink" shade to the tan colour that some collectors believe is required to prove desert usage. Although discussions are always ongoing.

    May be worth showing it on German Helmet Walhalla forum as they own more helmets between them than an entire WW2 division. If anyone can help you it'll be them.

    Still be nice to see some more photos including the markings under the rim.


  12. Looks like a Spanish M42 'Modello Z' to me.

    The clip on the front is for the Spanish emblem of the time (a gold eagle with a red cross on top). They were manufactured with a leather liner band riveted to the shell and a liner that looked like an M16 three padded one. 

    A good helmet to practice your refurbishment skills on. Not something to get too carried away on as good quality ones (although quality wasn't that good when they were new) are relatively inexpensive. I believe these were still being worn by border guards in the 1980s. 

    Refurbishment is pretty well covered in posts with the Military Art section with step by step pictures but give me a shout if you'd like some help.

    Try here 


    Cheers, Steve.

  13. I saw some of your castings, some very large architectural pieces I seem to remember as well. It's certainly a new way to think not only how to make something but how you can mould it and eventually actually get it out of the mould. Air bubbles are also a problem so that needs to be solved as well.

    My latest sculpture now moulded, we'll see if I actually get some decent casts from it: 


  14. Thanks, not only do you have to sculpt it, you have to think how you'll mould it and get the pieces out of the mould. As you understand very well - a whole skill in itself.

    As I originally couldn't figure out how to do it (read - couldn't be bothered) I visited a specialist company and got a price from them to mould and produce the casts for me. As they do a lot of this stuff for sculpture artists all over the country, for films, promotions etc etc I also asked them how the finished product should be priced for selling. They recommended that a piece would normally be  priced at 3 to 10 times the cost for casting. For this piece, 3 times the individual cost would be £250. Blimey, and some are charging up to 10 times which would put these at £810 each (would include the jolly nice wooden stand though).  

    How many would you like sir?   

  15. Unlucky, a nice one. But that little bit of extra to win may have turned into a LOT more to win if there's another bidding. They'll be more coming along (and just think of the saved wall space :D

    And, no comment on the monkey...


  16. Stick to his stuff without the Chimps. A very talented painter worth every penny I think. The chimp studies are ok but I really don't like the chimps playing cards, all dressed up etc. No idea why his monkey pictures attract so much money while the nice stuff is really very cheap considering the age of them.