Spasm

Gents

Just got home from work and have received the 1942 version of Hans Liska's Skizzenbuch from an antique bookshop in Germany (to add to the other couple of war art books I have).

I will photograph and post some of the pictures on here over the next couple of days - there's a few of them but they are pretty fantastic (by the guy who also did the famous Mercedes Benz catalogues). If there's interest I'll post all along with the others I have.

Wanna see gents?

Spaz

AlecH

Looking again at yours and comparing it to the breast eagles, notice how yours has a vertical patch running from the wings 'armpits' to the outside of the swastika roundel. The cap badges all have this in the pictures above - just like yours. All the breast eagles have no vertical line, they have the stitching running round the roundel to the eagle's 'ankles'. So, yours is a cap eagle and I was completely wrong Sorry.

So, to start over then.

AlecH, what you have there is a nice unused Heer M36 Cap Eagle.

Spaz

AlecH

I don't think the stiffness makes any difference - some were made from wool and some made with wire thread. I believe its the size that makes the difference. Some cap eagles had a sewn in cockade so they are easy. Have a look at this and see the difference in size. The breast eagles wingspans vary from 85mm to 95mm but all seem just over 45mm high (well, the ones I have - and I don't have many) with the cap eagles smaller by some way.

The breast eagles are the two at the top. I have no idea why I thought yours was a big one........ooops

Could be wrong but it makes sense.......

Cheers

Spaz

Ah, his taxi cab number

Would've ended up like this on the uniform

Hucks

Did you do any investigation work on it? If so can I have it? I'd really like to try to get some more history on this guy. I'd like to put a bit of a display together with his medals (obviously not his actual ones), photo, bayonet, etc etc. Any advice would be good

Spaz

And the back - notice the "thick" thread and the way it steps. Yep, I believe its a Heer Enlisted man and NCO M36 Breast Eagle.

AlecH

I believe its an M36 Breast Eagle like this one - front. Count the secondary feathers in mid wing - 4 rather than the 5.

Naxos

Phew, thanks for that. First one of these I've owned so got too involved with trying to translate everything in babelfish and the military abbreviations book

I'd like to think Karl had the chance to sit with his grandchildren on his knee saying "..and there I was, surrounded."

Thanks

Spaz

And lastly the crossed out equipment all dated 11 May 1945 (I think) and with the word "gest" clearly seen against the Seitengewehr (Bayonet) entry and repeated on most of the other entries. Did Karl really die on the last day of the war? I've sort of become attached to him the last couple of days, I really rather he hadn't :(

Karl's awards - Ost 1942, KvK 1943 and EKII Apr 1945

Karl's unit (in the light blue pen) Supply Battalion 557, 2nd Company. His wife Hedwig of Wuppertal which coincidentally is the title of his last leave in 1944.

Gents and Gentesses

I obtained this Soldbuch just the other day and have been painstakingly translating and trying to find the history behind it.

The Soldbuch is for a Karl Goetzmann originally fron Berlin but it seems lived in Wuppertal with his wife Hedwig. He was awarded, as can be seen on the awards page the Ost Medal, KvK with swords and the Spange to the EKII as he had already been awarded the EKII in WW1, the awards can also be seen on his photo, along with the Hindenburg Cross with swords. (The photo was before he was awarded the Spange.)

I think his unit was 2nd Company Nachschub (Supply) Battalion, as can be seen on the following photos, which (correct me here please) was attached to the Army Group Centre.

Anyway, this is the bit I could do with some help. On page 8a, equipment issue, you can see from the photos that he was issued with rifle, pistol, bayonet, compass etc but that they have all been crossed out and alongside the date 11 May 1945. And then to my shock (when I looked it up in the German Military Abbreviations, MIS War Dept book) the word "gest" which is short for gestorben or died.

The surrender of German forces was complete in Europe on 7th May with some pockets still holding out. The Battle of Prague and then Slivice continued for a while as German forces frantically tried to surrender to nearby American forces while defending against the Soviet massed armies. The last German force capitulated in the early hours of 12 May with 6000 captured by the Soviets.

Could Karl have been killed on the very last day of the war after joining up in 1939 !!!!!! Please tell me I'm wrong.

AlecH

It looks like one of these. Its a breast eagle from 1935, worn by enlisted men and NCOs. The backing was "badge-cloth" abzeichentuch, a close-woven velvetish fabric; this was originally grey, but in late 1935 the renamed Wehrmacht Heer changed the color to a dark blue-green called flaschengrun (bottle-green).

Spaz

Oh and by the way just in case you were wondering. The map below shows the Gau districts of Germany. They are not the same as the SA Gruppe area maps I've seen on most dagger collector web pages.

It says Gruppe in most of the SA Ausweis I've seen and doesn't mention Gau, so I believe the stamped area marks on the early daggers are Gruppe marks not "Gau" marks.

Right, thats that solved then.

i've looked at all the Ausweis that I can lay my hands on and have read everything I can find on the subject short of translating every bit of german on babelfish from within the records at the Bundesarchiv SA files. (took some time copying small paragraphs into the translation box I can tell you)

Nordmark and Berlin daggers (or any others with the same configuration for that matter) that have the --/-- prior to the 5 digit numbers are the Sturm and Standarte (most Ausweis have this configuration within them) followed by the individual's SA Ausweis number. So, for example, a dagger stamp marked 23/85 Nm 32451 will be Sturm 23, Standarte 85, Gruppe Nordmark and Ausweis Number 32451.

Franken daggers (or others) that have the --/----- are the Standarte Number and then the Ausweis. So, for example, like mine above, a dagger stamp marked 15/22077 Fr will be Standarte 15, Ausweis Number 22077 and Gruppe Franken.

So, anyone have a copy of SA Franken Ausweis Number 22077 I can have a look at? ;)

So, this Truppfuhrer (staff sergeant), according to SA rank insignia I have found on t'tinternet, should have two pips on his left collar and, as he is a sturm member should have Sturm/Standarte on his right collar. Looking at the stamp with the eagle - his Sturmbann is III which is then follwed by the Standarte which is 21. Further down the Ausweis is his Sturm which is 21 followed by his Standarte which again is 21. So, his collar should say 21/21. Senior staff would have Sturmbann which is III followed by the Standarte which is 21, hence III/21. I'm assuming Truppfuhrer isn't senior staff.

Looking at his photo I can't see anything - so that helps then. But, any old end up, it looks like there was also a Standarte 21 in Franken. So, if Philipp Wurzburger liked everyone to have stamped numbered daggers would Anton's have been 21/44273?

Am I talking to myself here? come on guys help a bit I'm just getting lost :unsure:

A Franken, Brigade 78 Ausweis:

Right, now I've found these (which sort of go together to understand the Identification paper):

I really like the hooter on the car, no jay walking with that one :speechless1:

This is Philipp Wurzburger, Brigadefuhrer of Brigade 78 after being promoted from leader of Standarte 14 in 1937. He was a politician in the NSDAP and was gold party badge holder 65782. Apparently he was released from captivity in 1953.

Well, still looking....

It seems as though only two brigades were in the Franken Gruppe - Brigade 78 based in Wurzburg and Brigade 79 based in Nurnberg. So, it seems as though I'm looking for a Standarte. I think both Standarte 14 and 15 were based in Nurnberg (only mentions of reserve SA in german web pages but no actual direct evidence, so would be nice to see some) and Philip Wurzbacher was the Brigade Leader. I've seen both 14/----- and 15/----- stamped on SA daggers so (a bit of a leap of faith here) it may have been Wurzbacher who ordered the numbering of the daggers.

So, would the Ausweis numbers match the dagger numbers in Gruppe Franken? Does anybody have any? Is there a list somewhere of SA member's numbers?

Spaz

Still looking for evidence and have come across a paper by Dr martin Schuster who seems to favour the 5 digit number being the SA Member's Ausweis (document of identification) number.

There were no regulations regarding individualisation to daggers but some Gruppe seemed to have some form of similarity in stamping the cross guards - Berlin and Nordmark daggers (that are stamped) have the Sturm and Standarte stamped giving a --/-- type number prior to the 5 digit number, while others have just a double digit number prior to the 5 digit. Still searching, help would be greatly accepted.

Spaz

Mervyn

Good insight on the etchings reminding you of Roman Legions. Bellona was the Roman Goddess of War who was usually depicted wearing a helmet.

I believe 1783 was when the British had to officially recognise the United States at theTreaties of Versialles and pulled the last troops from New York. I can't quite make out the writing but I suppose they could be referring to that.

Even though the French figured they'd beaten the British at last it almost bankrupted France and led to the revolution with the rest being history.

Never enough time to get into everything is there. Thanks for showing these wonderful things and some money 50 years ago!

Cheers

Spaz

Gents

Not sure if this shouldn't go into Africa but I suppose the Union Flag is present. But it certainly wasn't a colony at that time.

Spaz