Jump to content
Gentleman's Military Interest Club

Dave Wilkinson

Silver Membership
  • Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by Dave Wilkinson

  1. From the photos, it seems it was never intended to be white. You may be successful in removing the paint from the metal fittings. However, you will not get the paint off the fabric covering, which should be black/dark navy blue. Looking at the two holes where the badge has originally been, it suggests that the original badge was a fairly small one. At a guess, possibly Berkshire Constabulary. The canvas chin strap is not original to the helmet, nor is the red band around it. You could have a go at restoring it and then see what the end result looks like. The white paint may come off if its water based emulsion, but other than that I think its a lost cause. Its a shame because the cork shell appears quite sturdy.


  2. You mention that your man served in the "Sunderland County Police". Insofar as your research is concerned it is worth bearing in mind that such a police force has never existed. If he served at Hebburn and Jarrow, he would have been a member of the Durham County Constabulary. I hope this is helpful.


  3. Here in the UK, formal uniform for certainly the police and fire services either has been or is being scrapped. For two main reasons. Firstly, there is no longer the cash to pay for it and secondly (apart from perhaps London) emergency services seldom if ever have the spare capacity or time to take part in any formal occasions. Insofar as the police are concerned the concept of "mess dress" has never really taken hold. I can recall attending a command course at the Police Staff College several years ago where formal "dining in" nights were regularly held and apart from members of the former RHKP and some (not all) members of the RUC, the rest of us wore dinner suits without any additional adornment.


  4. No one seems to have bothered to answer this enquiry, so I'll provide the details I have for William MAUNDER.

    He joined on 26th December 1893 (Warrant No:- 79218) and was posted to "E" Division (Holborn). He retired on pension on 6th February 1922 and at that time he was serving as a Sergeant in the 1st Division (Woolwich Dockyard/Arsenal). In 1897 he was a Constable in the 1st division. In 1902 he was still a Constable in that Division and in 1911 he was a Sergeant in the 1st Division. According to the book compiled by Mr. J.H.F. Kemp he was entitled to the 1911 Coronation Medal in addition to those you have. I hope this is helpful.


    PS. It looks as if some industrious individual has cleaned the medals, which will have devalued them somewhat.

  5. Firstly, the surviving personal records for those who served in the provincial police forces of the UK are, in the main, very scant. The Metropolitan Police records are reasonably well preserved and someone on here may be able to help you. The Cheshire Constabulary maintain a museum with website. They will provide details from any records they have, but there are charges to be paid. Go to their website for details. I doubt that you will have much success with the others. Most of the provincial forces have deposited their personnel records with their County or Local Record Offices. In quite a few cases, the records have either been intentionally destroyed or were lost as a result of enemy action during the last war.   Best of luck!


  6. The British Overseas Territories police forces are not awarded the PLS & GC medal. Instead the receive the BOT Police Long service medal (I think that's its title). It replaced the old Colonial Police Medal several years ago. There are also bars to it for years in addition. They are also entitled to the QPM. Your photos show the Royal Gib. Police Commissioner and also the Gib. Defence Police (green & white cap bands). The Chief Officer of the GDP is a seconded UK officer and he is wearing the PLS &GC medal.



  7. A new book has just been published entitled "Special Constabulary Insignia of England & Wales". Softback. A4 size. 138 pages depicting over 750 colour photos of Special Constabulary badges from the Great War to the present day. Plus 38 black and white period photos featuring members of the Special Constabulary. The book has been privately published and is of a limited print run. For anyone interested the price is £25 per copy. This is inclusive of UK postage. Airmail postage outwith the UK will be extra. Payment via PAYPAL (family & friends). PM me if you would like a copy.

  8. On 2017-5-10 at 00:09, SBPartridge said:

    Hi, new to this site, I've asked in Liverpool and they haven't got a list. Big shame that the Kew list doesn't cover them! the percentage of men sacked there was very high. be interested to hear from anyone who has police strike stories particularly in Merseyside and saying what happened to the men afterwards. I've looked into that a bit. plus one to "The Night the Police Went on Strike" some good info in there. Lots of misinformation was circulated which makes it very hard to follow the story with any accuracy. 

    I understand that Merseyside Police have details of all the strikers. However, they are not in the form of a list as such. What they have are several thousands of of index cards which would need to be researched to collate who did and who didn't strike. The key to the issue is to identify which strikers did not return to duty after the Head Constable gave his order to return to duty, and who were later instantly dismissed. Without doubt, at the time (1919) there must have been a list compiled for pay and other purposes. However, it would seem that no longer exists. If you were to examine the Liverpool Watch Committee minutes you will find various mentions of strikers making applications for re-employment and for the grant of pensions post 1919 through (believe it or not) to the 1950's. In Liverpool no striker (after dismissal) was ever re-appointed to the City Police and none were ever given their pension.

    As an aside one very young Constable who did go on strike, Joseph William Teesdale SMITH, did return to duty when ordered by the Head Constable. Joe SMITH subsequently became Chief Constable of Liverpool in 1959 and retired in November 1964. How ironic is that?



  9. Pete,

    That is interesting! The badge on your man's cap looks as if it is in bullion wire. I'd be happier if the NMM badge was in white metal as opposed to brass/gilt. I say that because if it was in white metal it would match the white metal buttons on the tunic. The Metpol. always wore white metal badges pre. 1935 ish apart from the blacked over helmet plates. The badge illustrated would be more likely to be worn by the RN (or similar) rather than police. What do you think?


  10. Pete,

    I'm attaching a photo of a Metpol. Thames Div. man of the same period as your photo. the wording on his shoulder reads "Metropolitan Police". the jacket is a "reefer" design as opposed to a tunic. In all probability the same pattern cap and reefer would have been supplied from the central clothing store to the Dockyard Divs. for those men who did duty there afloat. I've never seen a specific "dockyard" cap badge and almost certainly the anchor badge (identical to the Thames Div.) would have been worn.  The photo of the Metpol. Dockyard badges may be of interest. Shown is an example of the shoulder patch.




    Metpol. Badges 2..JPG

  11. I think you will find that he is a bandsman. The various divisions of the Metpol. invariably all had their own band. Although they wore their everyday uniforms their headgear often differed as indeed did the cap badges. These were privately purchased from band funds and were not Metpol. issue as such. 

    As to the "water branch". They would have worn a very soft peaked cap without stiffening. The badge was a simple fouled anchor in metal. A very ornate cap such as your man is wearing would be totally out of keeping when traversing the waterway of a dockyard but worn by a bandsman would be quite impressive. I have a photograph of a Metpol. member of the Thames Div. wearing a cap such as that described. I will attach it later for your information.




  12. I think you will find that he is a member of the Dockyard Police Band. See the appended group photo of the Devonport Dockyard Met. Police Band which is taken some years, I would suggest, after yours. As you can see, they are all wearing senior officer style caps. Their badge appears to be a KC crowned star with an applied lyre in the centre. I hope this is helpful. Your Pc 52 may indeed be in this photo.



    Met. Police. Devonport Dyard Band 1920.jpg