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Trajan

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Posts posted by Trajan


  1. On 10/05/2018 at 00:24, ixhs said:

    There is no chance to ID that guy without a name.

    The 1st red cross medal is wrong. You need to chance it in a 2nd class (with red enamel)

    The König Ludwig cross was a mass decoration.

    What we know is, that this decorated person was a prussian - may be a medic.

    The bar was made in the mid 1930s.

    To your first point...  A serving medical officer with Ottoman army (Major Zscech) can have an EK I and II, a Red Cross 3rd Class, a 'Hindenburg Cross', and a Medjidieh Order 3rd Class. A medic representing the Red Cross and attached to to the German forces (Zlocisti, See http://www.regimentals.co.uk/viewitem.php?id=47) has an 'honorary' rank of Captain. and an EK I and II, Red Cross 2nd and 3rd Class, and a Medjidieh Order 4th Class... 

    The bar I have has a Medjidieh Order 5th Class so ranks lower than an 'honorary Captain' so this is awarded to a Leutnant??? Best match I know of is  a Hekim Teğmen (= Physician Leutnant) F. Schmücke, serving in a hospital at Beirut. But not my field of research...

    Yes, I am fully aware there is a mistake there... I do KNOW that there should be a silver second class in front of the bronze 3rd class... Read my post... So, what was happened here? Think on it... A medal bar with two Prussian red cross medals but a zinc one where a silver one shuld be? My take. The silver went lost, but somebody knew what the ribbon was for and so put the zinc one there - note how it hangs lower than the rest. That person who replaced it KNEW it had to be a red cross medal but did know or did not have access to a silver one. I won't change it - piece of history as it is!

    I don't know how widely the König Ludwig cross was awarded - but wasn't it more a civilian decoration? Either way, the man ths bar belonged to was indeed a Prussian - and not "may be a medic", but I would think "certainly a medic", and an officer medic at that!

    Yes, of course a 1930's bar - it has a HK on it!:rolleyes: I am not a complete dumbo!!!:)


  2. Well, that's what I think it is! A rather mysterious piece bought in Ankara but with no background story

    It certainly relates to Prussian service under the Ottoman Empire but with with a few oddities - e.g., why a second Prussian Rotkreuzmedaille in zinc where a second class silver should be?  I suspect to replace a silver that was lost... And the back-to-front VdK für Kriegshilfe next to the EK? Well, I have seen that in bars before. But why a Bavarian Ludwig Kreuz (non-magnetic) at the end for a Prussian? I have no problems with the unofficial veterans Verein medal at the very end as I have seen photographs of guys in the 3R Wehrmacht wearing these alongside their WW1 medals and HKreuz, despite what the 1935 rules said!

    A 'Combatants' HK with Red Cross medals would certainly seem odd(!) - but is not without parallel! Have a look at this group: https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/berliner/catalogue-id-bahg10000/lot-4086fb7c-459c-42dd-8f47-a49d01669c78 It belonged to a Dr.Bernhard Zscech, a German officer who served with the Ottoman army in WW1, and who is listed as a Hekim Binbaşı or "Physician Major" in a Turkish list of German military officers in Turkey in WW1. He accumulated, inter alia, an EK I and II; a Prussian Red Cross Medal 3rd Class; a 'Hindenburg Cross' for a Frontkaempfer'; and a row of Ottoman awards - Liakat-Medal, in silver with sabres, Imtiyaz medal in silver with sabres, an "Iron Crescent", or Harp madalya - and a Mecidiye Order 3rd Class. He is listed as serving at the Deniz Asker Hastanesinde or 'Sailors Hospital' and the Taşkışla hastanesi or 'Hospice' in Constantinople.

    The Ottoman Medjidieh in this group is 5th Class and so I suspect the recipient was a Leutnant - and I do have a candidate in mind.. But I would welcome all and any comments. Oh, and yes, I did wonder if it was a 'marriage' of medals that did not belong to each other - but a marriage getting a zinc Red Cross medal where a silver one should be and everything else in order?

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  3. On 08/08/2017 at 17:08, tompress said:

    Clear :) Very nice looking bar. The Hanseatic Hamburg cross is a privately purchased Spangenstück.

    greetings
    Tomasz

    I have read and re-read these postings and remain confused as to what an official version of one of these looks like! I have a few German medal bars including a paired EK and Hamburg medal, so, which of the above is an official version please!:unsure:


  4. On 5/23/2010 at 01:06, Troy Tempest said:

    I'd be glad to post photos soon. My current digital camera doesn't focus down close enough to take shots of makers marks etc, ...

     

    Don't you just hate it when that 'Can't do a photograph right now' comes up and then nothing else appears! Yes, and old thread, but it would be nice to see the photographs having one of these 'keine magnetish' ones myself...


  5. On 3/21/2016 at 18:39, demir said:

    Thanks for the remarks. I bought them when I was visiting Germany several years ago. I don't remember how much I paid but I think not so much. 

    I also have these two magnetic EKIIs on ribbon bars.

    The first set is with Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges 1914-18  (KM&F), Turkish Liyakat and Glory/Industry Medal

    Regards

    Demir

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    I guess that this group might be a staff officer seconded for service in Germany and so a non combattants EKII as that is a Ehrenkreuz für Kriegsteilnehmer... 


  6. Hi Tony,

    Yes I saw that site - and one of the photographs at the start page does show some uniformed official with an SA member, and the former seems to have something on his Ehrenkreuz ribbon, possibly crossed swords. But, basically, yes - more 'bling' was required by the owner of my pair!

     

    Julian

    4 hours ago, Trajan said:

    I'll try and get new photographs of the EK on line later today - when I find my camera! -

    Eric,

     

    How are these? Do they help in anyway?

     

    Julian

    ek 2c.jpg

    ek 2b.jpg


  7. Thanks Eric,

     

    I'll try and get new photographs of the EK on line later today - when I find my camera! - but yes, a partial stamp for 'WUS' is a good explanation. I gather that there were quite a few EK makers and that not all have been conclusively identified, but Joh.Wagner und Sohn of Berlin were noted retailers of medals, etc..

     

    The Ehrenkreuz, by the way, has what I gather is a common maker's mark - 'O.6' for Orden-Herstellergemeinschaft - Pforzheim

     

    Any thoughts, by the way, on the use of Kyffhäuserbund swords on the Ehrenkreuz ribbon on an Ordnensspange? I have seen other examples like this on the web, in collections and in 'for sale' adverts... I can understand why a man would have these crossed swords on the ribbon on a Feldspange but why on an Ordensspange when the recipient's category of Ehrenkreuz medal would be clearly visible from the medal itself?

     

    Jullian 


  8. Will this one below do to be going on with? I'll try and gets ones of the cross alone tomorrow or at the weekend.

     

    Also, any thoughts on the use of the Kyffhäuserbund swords on the Ehrenkreuz ribbon? These were not needed to show the man's combatant status as the medal did that. As the medals are easily detachable from the ribbon bar, I did wonder if they were for when the ribbon bar was worn by itself to show the recipient's status as a Frontkampfer recipient of the Ehrenkreuz. I have seen other examples like this.

     

    Julian

     

    ek 2 and hind2.jpg


  9.  

     

    16 minutes ago, Tony said:

    Ooooh that's a tough one! Could it be a poorly stamped WS shown upside down in your photo?

    Do you know this site http://www.kaisersbunker.com/stuff/1914_EK2_makers.htm

    Thanks Tony, 

     

    Yes I periodically step into the kaiserbunker as it is an excellent general source on the very many things I know nowt about - I am a WW1 German bayonet collector really!

     

    Could be a 'WS' - but I have no idea as to which way they stamped the things! I was reading from outside in but I guess it could be from inside out?

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