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    Trajan

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    Posts posted by Trajan

    1. On 15/05/2010 at 21:52, Brian Wolfe said:

      Hello Everyone,

      I have been looking for a bronze BWM named to an Indian for some time now and thanks to a fellow member here at GMIC I now have one. Many thanks, you know who you are. :beer:

       

      The bronze BWM was awarded to personnel in labour battalions rather than the silver medals that went to military personnel.

      The number struck and awarded was about 110,000 compared with the silver BWM that comes in around 6,500,000 [numbers source Medal Yearbook 2004]. These are understandably much more difficult to come by than the silver ones. I now have three in my collection. The Medal Yearbook states that these were awarded "manly to Chinese, Indian and Maltese personnel", I still have to get one awarded to a Maltese labourer. The medals in the photo have labels so I won't duplicate that information here.

      I've taken close up photos of the naming and I hope you can make them out; photography is not my forte.

      Regards

      Brian

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      6245 Muleteer, Macedonian Mule Corps, is Costis, Georghi.

      Trajan

      On 15/05/2010 at 21:52, Brian Wolfe said:

      Hello Everyone,

      I have been looking for a bronze BWM named to an Indian for some time now and thanks to a fellow member here at GMIC I now have one. Many thanks, you know who you are. :beer:

       

      The bronze BWM was awarded to personnel in labour battalions rather than the silver medals that went to military personnel.

      The number struck and awarded was about 110,000 compared with the silver BWM that comes in around 6,500,000 [numbers source Medal Yearbook 2004]. These are understandably much more difficult to come by than the silver ones. I now have three in my collection. The Medal Yearbook states that these were awarded "manly to Chinese, Indian and Maltese personnel", I still have to get one awarded to a Maltese labourer. The medals in the photo have labels so I won't duplicate that information here.

      I've taken close up photos of the naming and I hope you can make them out; photography is not my forte.

      Regards

      Brian

      post-1801-12739495444.jpg

      6245 Muleteer, Macedonian Mule Corps, is Costis, Georghi.

      Trajan

    2. The real point is (no pun intended!) that German soldiers believed they would be badly treated if found with a sawback. Like the babies spitted on a bayonet, the 'terrible' sawback bayonet and the wounds it inflicted, often after the bayonet had been purposely  covered with faeces, was Belgian propaganda put out to counter the fact that the Belgians were still in the public eye for their treatment of the natives in the Congo, which included, inter alia, double hand amputations

      Anyway, the German General staff managed to stiffle that belief, common in the first 12-18 months of the war only, after researching the matter. But the belief was resurrected in 1916 or so presumably after the S.84/98 - many with sawbacks - started to become the bayonet of choice for trench-raiders. Hence the order to remove the sawbacks from all front line troops and then the de-sawbacking for re-use there.

      Trajan

    3. On 08/08/2015 at 21:11, Hoss said:

      Trajan I'd be interested to know what the 'N' mark represents I see it quite often but no longer have any reference material, I gave it all away 15yrs ago.

      Eric

      I don't think it has any other meaning that a factory 'check-mark'. I have seen them on other 98/05's and will re-check my Waffenfabrik's to see if any of these are marked that way.

    4. Incidentally, as most will know, the sawbacked versions of the 98/05, etc., formed 6% of each distribution per unit (except pioniers). Yet when looking at unit-marked versions of 98/05's, they have surived in greater numbers than 6%. Obviously, these were the ones chosen as 'bring-backs' over the plain types.

       

      Note also, it is a da** sight harder to find a sawback removed than one with a sawback! It took me 9 years of searching shops and flea markets to eventually find one!

      Trajan

    5. On 06/01/2020 at 21:28, Chris Boonzaier said:

      Hi, I did some research, it seems that in this case Heller made the blade, the royal Arsenal in Erfurt assembled the bayonet... the acceptance stamp is always on top of the blade, just above the hilt.

      It is still not entirely clear why some bayonets are double-marked like this although the accepted explanation is that the mark on the right hand ricasso is the blade maker, and the mark on the left the bayonet finisher, i.e. the concern that made it ready for use. The Gebruder Heller bayonets on record are all dated to between 1915-1917, but it seems that only the sawbacked versions have the Erfurt stamp. My feeling and explanation for this is that Heller did not have the equipment for adding the sawback. Gebr.Heller did make cold saws, but the teeth of a sawback have to be set diagonally to each other just as is the case with a wood-cutting saw to create the necessary kerf.

      Trajan

    6. On 22/06/2014 at 14:25, jaba1914 said:

      I need some support to identify the ribbons on this ribbon bar.

      The guy on this picture looks to be a german officer who surved for the ottoman air service.

       

      He wear the german observer badge, ottoman aviation badge, iron cross and the wound badge. On the right chest the ottoman war medal.

       

      So far so good but what does he wear on the bar?

      can someone identify the clasp on the ribbon for the war medal?

       

      Regards

       

      Alex

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      The clasp is indeed upside down and looks to be the one for 'Irak'.

      Trajan

    7. On 10/05/2018 at 00:24, ixhs said:

      There is no chance to ID that guy without a name.

      The 1st red cross medal is wrong. You need to chance it in a 2nd class (with red enamel)

      The König Ludwig cross was a mass decoration.

      What we know is, that this decorated person was a prussian - may be a medic.

      The bar was made in the mid 1930s.

      To your first point...  A serving medical officer with Ottoman army (Major Zscech) can have an EK I and II, a Red Cross 3rd Class, a 'Hindenburg Cross', and a Medjidieh Order 3rd Class. A medic representing the Red Cross and attached to to the German forces (Zlocisti, See http://www.regimentals.co.uk/viewitem.php?id=47) has an 'honorary' rank of Captain. and an EK I and II, Red Cross 2nd and 3rd Class, and a Medjidieh Order 4th Class... 

      The bar I have has a Medjidieh Order 5th Class so ranks lower than an 'honorary Captain' so this is awarded to a Leutnant??? Best match I know of is  a Hekim Teğmen (= Physician Leutnant) F. Schmücke, serving in a hospital at Beirut. But not my field of research...

      Yes, I am fully aware there is a mistake there... I do KNOW that there should be a silver second class in front of the bronze 3rd class... Read my post... So, what was happened here? Think on it... A medal bar with two Prussian red cross medals but a zinc one where a silver one shuld be? My take. The silver went lost, but somebody knew what the ribbon was for and so put the zinc one there - note how it hangs lower than the rest. That person who replaced it KNEW it had to be a red cross medal but did know or did not have access to a silver one. I won't change it - piece of history as it is!

      I don't know how widely the König Ludwig cross was awarded - but wasn't it more a civilian decoration? Either way, the man ths bar belonged to was indeed a Prussian - and not "may be a medic", but I would think "certainly a medic", and an officer medic at that!

      Yes, of course a 1930's bar - it has a HK on it!:rolleyes: I am not a complete dumbo!!!:)

    8. Well, that's what I think it is! A rather mysterious piece bought in Ankara but with no background story

      It certainly relates to Prussian service under the Ottoman Empire but with with a few oddities - e.g., why a second Prussian Rotkreuzmedaille in zinc where a second class silver should be?  I suspect to replace a silver that was lost... And the back-to-front VdK für Kriegshilfe next to the EK? Well, I have seen that in bars before. But why a Bavarian Ludwig Kreuz (non-magnetic) at the end for a Prussian? I have no problems with the unofficial veterans Verein medal at the very end as I have seen photographs of guys in the 3R Wehrmacht wearing these alongside their WW1 medals and HKreuz, despite what the 1935 rules said!

      A 'Combatants' HK with Red Cross medals would certainly seem odd(!) - but is not without parallel! Have a look at this group: https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/berliner/catalogue-id-bahg10000/lot-4086fb7c-459c-42dd-8f47-a49d01669c78 It belonged to a Dr.Bernhard Zscech, a German officer who served with the Ottoman army in WW1, and who is listed as a Hekim Binbaşı or "Physician Major" in a Turkish list of German military officers in Turkey in WW1. He accumulated, inter alia, an EK I and II; a Prussian Red Cross Medal 3rd Class; a 'Hindenburg Cross' for a Frontkaempfer'; and a row of Ottoman awards - Liakat-Medal, in silver with sabres, Imtiyaz medal in silver with sabres, an "Iron Crescent", or Harp madalya - and a Mecidiye Order 3rd Class. He is listed as serving at the Deniz Asker Hastanesinde or 'Sailors Hospital' and the Taşkışla hastanesi or 'Hospice' in Constantinople.

      The Ottoman Medjidieh in this group is 5th Class and so I suspect the recipient was a Leutnant - and I do have a candidate in mind.. But I would welcome all and any comments. Oh, and yes, I did wonder if it was a 'marriage' of medals that did not belong to each other - but a marriage getting a zinc Red Cross medal where a silver one should be and everything else in order?

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    9. On 08/08/2017 at 17:08, tompress said:

      Clear :) Very nice looking bar. The Hanseatic Hamburg cross is a privately purchased Spangenstück.

      greetings
      Tomasz

      I have read and re-read these postings and remain confused as to what an official version of one of these looks like! I have a few German medal bars including a paired EK and Hamburg medal, so, which of the above is an official version please!:unsure:

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