Claudio

Old Contemptible
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About Claudio

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  • Birthday 05/04/68

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  • Location
    Italy
  • Interests
    German Imperial medal bars.

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  1. Hi Chris! Now you HAVE to visit the Kolovrat where Schörner for his actions earned the PlM near Kobarit (Caporetto in Italian, Karfreit in German), where the German (Alpenkorps) and Austrian troops lauched their offensive on a foggy and rainy October 23rd 1917. Soon it will be 100 years anniversary, sure enough, as I spoke with the Museum director in Kobarit a couple of years back, (beautiful Museum, they organize excursions to the various front https://www.kobariski-muzej.si/gefuhrte_touren/fuhrungen_zu_ehemaligen_frontabschnitten/ , I have been there twice!), they will have something organized this year. Every year, he told me, on that very date they organize a trekking trip to the Matajur and repeat the route taken by Rommel to get to the summit and completly take by surprise and surround all the Italian troops in this part of the front (Rommel alone with its Wurttembergian mountain "Kampfgruppe" of 2-3 reinforced companies took 9'000 prisoners). The first being awarded was Schörner; in fact that award was intented for the first officer who could take the Kolovrat heights. The Central power's generality thought this might have been the furthest break-through point to achieve during that offensive. But Rommel went on, took the oppurtunity to fully use the favorable momentum, also driven by the fact that he badly wanted to win the PlM, too. Finally, thanks also to Major Sproesser's insistance and recommendations (commanding officer of the whole Wurttembergian mountain troops/battalion and direct superior of Rommel then Oberleutnant, same rank of Schörner too), Rommel got his so ardently desired PlM (as well as Major Sproesser did receive it... see picture!). I would love to visit these places again... the history there is so great! Food and locations also! Slovenians are very friendly and most can speak Italian and English well. So interesting; you can still find a lot of trenches and paths to walk... all very well described. The view from the Matajur over the valley of the Isonzo/Soca river (North) and on the plains towards Udine and Triest (South) is just breathtaking and it shows so well how important was to take this Mount for the Central powers... after that point there were no natural obstacles until Venezia, apart from the rivers (like Piave where the offensive was eventually stopped). If they had taken the bridges or the western banks of the river Piave, the Central powers troops would have taken Venezia and the Po plains ... Very interesting stuff... ;-) Ciao, C
  2. It seems that Schörner was quite fond of wearing his Leiberring, before the war and even after! ;-) ...or at least it looks like...
  3. Hi Chris! You are totally right to say it's a piece of history; it all boils down to how much are you prepared to pay for it. I think that you did well buying the ring; I'm sure that Schörner wore much more his "Leiberring" and it was quite special to him. Maybe he was wearing it during the assault at Caporetto in October 1917, who knows it?... for sure not the medal bar... Eur 1'500.- was the value of the medals if they were worn by a Oberstleutnant Schmidt, Müller or even Arschloch... I was ready to pay up to 3 times the price, but no more than that. For that Price however, I'd have liked to have seen the reverse of the bar, just to be on the safe side. It's also possible that he had 2 bars... some officers owned many bars, like a civilian attire "Frackspange" and also a normal "Ordensspange" to be worn with the uniform. I heard of a Colonel/Oberst who had 6 (!) EK1 1914! I remember that Th. had for sale also the medal bar of General Deitrich Von Saucken, 27th recipient RK with oak leaves, swords & diamonds, starting price Eur 5'000.- and he didn't sell it (see Pictures below). Also in this case there weren't any pictures of the back of the bar neither Information about the provenence (who owned it before, from where it came... etc.). Moreover the combination's of von Saucken's medal bar was somewhat less unique and interesting. Again, Chris, well done with that ring... it fits perfectly in your collection and, if I can say so, to your Leiber "addiction"... I'm also quite interested in that Regiment, the Alpenkorps and especially the "Gebirgsjäger"... being a Swiss! C
  4. Cute ribbon bars! All Godets... the one with the blue backing and more robust needle catch Setup is earlier, maybe even late WWI. Thanks for showing...
  5. During war German soldiers weren't allowed to wear the full bar, it was prohibited (that's why so many bars weren't updated with the EK 1939 clasp or the WiO for example), just feldspangen was allowed. Although I have seen lots of Pictures with soldiers during WWII wearing medal bars, especially at weddings or unofficial/private Events. Here some other stuff of Schörner that finally weren't offered on the auction. Enjoy! ;-) Claudio
  6. Surely after the Anschluss of Ostmak (Austria)... he moved that Austrian WWI MVK3 before the FEK (Hindy cross)... that cross was considered German after Austria annexed in March 1938...
  7. 7900 euros for a medal bar probably mounted after the war... mmmmhhh... not good enough for me...
  8. Interesting... if you could find a deal to buy stuff from him directly you would have spent much less money... and he could probably got more out of it! Btw on the catalogue it was mentioned that this stuff came directly from the family (Familienbesitz)... so that was not entirely true... or was it???
  9. http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Personenregister/S/SchoernerF-R.htm this is one which he's wearing is not exactly the same (look at the order of the medals) @ Chris: I noticed that... But it didn't show it as well as the back of the bar. For that price I would have put more pictures in the catalogue...
  10. That's the reason I finally didn't want to win that auction... the medals on the bar were about 1500 euro worth... and no picture of the very same bar being worn...
  11. I think € 6'400 plus 23%, almost € 7'900 including fees...
  12. Check Thies' catalogue here: http://www.andreas-thies.de/kataloge/62_auktion.html Schörner's articles are from page 290 onwards For example his medal bars and some (many) documents were sold. His Godet Pour le Mérite wasn't on sale. Best regards, C
  13. Congrats Chris!!!! I tried to bid on Schörners bar, without luck... too expensive! But when I saw that Leiberring, I immediately thought of you... well done! C
  14. IMHO the EK2 is original, very likely like Dansson said, a Deumer piece, produced in the late 20ies/early 30ies. These sometimes you can find in pretty pristine conditions. I got a group of a officer and WWI veteran that had 2 EK1 1914... one was heavily worn on the field and the other one it was mint like the one you have on this bar. I don't like the BMVK1X either... these are easily upgraded by skilled collectors/dealers who have professional skills in gilding process and also in enamel repairs (I know a Bavarian collector/dealer who did it...). I would stick with textbook BMVK1, early types, 3 pieces medallion with gold L cyphers. Not all the Bavarian BMVK producers, produced the 1st class cross for instance...