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Rusty Greaves

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Everything posted by Rusty Greaves

  1. Rusty Greaves

    Egypt Khedivate Judge's Badge question

    I recently had an opportunity to visit one of the library document archives of materials related to my wife's great grandfather, Pierre Crabitès. His 25 years serving on the Mixed Courts in Cairo is the reason I have started looking into the judges' badges for this court, the Order of Ismail, and the Abbas Hilmi II commemorative medal I have posted about here under the Middle East & Arab States section. I went to the Crabitès Collection at the University of New Orleans that contains a number of correspondence documents, newspaper clippings, and miscellania that his wife saved and donated to the University. This is apparently not as rich an archive for Crabitès as those in Washington, Boston, and London. Crabitès retired from his judgeship on the Mixed Courts in Cairo (the District Courts) in 1936 because the British had blocked his advancement to the Court of Appeals due to his royalist sympathies. Back in the US, he eventually managed to get an assignment from the OSS to return to Egypt in January 1942, and went to Cairo that May. Immediately, the British started to block his assignment in Egypt, again because of his friendliness with King Farouk I. The OSS acceded to their wishes and cancelled his position, despite the reason they accepted Crabitès was they wanted his closeness with King Farouk to help get information about how the King was disposed toward the Allies. Initially Crabitès made contact with Hassanein, the Chief of the Royal Cabinet, and it was clear Farouk was happy to have Judge Crabitès in Cairo. Hassanein conveyed the King’s belief that: "He has long felt the need of having the counsel of a foreigner of his father’s generation who knows Egypt and who has no ulterior motive to subserve. There is no telling what blessing to Egypt, to the Allied cause and to a heal thy understanding with England may not flow from your presence here." (State Department Document: 123 Crabitès, Pierre/7: Communiqué from Pierre Crabitès,transmitted by Alexander Kirk, Cairo, to Colonel Donovan, through the Secretary of State, 28 May 1942). Crabitès was sent back to the US for a while, was tentatively given an appointment to Beirut, which the British eventually blocked as well. He returned to Egypt in June 1943 for his re-assignment to Baghdad, where he arrived in July. Crabitès died there in October 1943, from complications of lung infections he got shortly after returning to Egypt in May 1942. I came across a couple of brief telegrams from King Farouk I to Crabitès. The first is from October 1942 to Crabitès c/o Washington DC (when he was back in Virginia). The second is from February 1943, also when he was in Virginia, unfortunately the first pasted paper line of that telegram has been lost. Both are illustrated below. Telegram of October 14, 1942 from King Farouk I from October 1942 to Pierre Crabitès c/o Washington DC, while he was back in Virginia prior to returning to Egypt (Crabitès Collection, University of New Orleans, New Orleans Louisiana, 73-2). Telegram of 11 February, 1943 from King Farouk 1 to Pierre Crabitès c/o Washington DC, also when he was in Virginia, unfortunately the first pasted paper line of that telegram has been lost (Crabitès Collection, University of New Orleans, New Orleans Louisiana, 73-2). I also found a letter of 18 August 1938 from "Aly Maher, Palais de Ras El-Tine, Alexandrie, Cabinet de S.M. Le Roi", (on letterhead with the Khedival Crown) to Crabitès then teaching at Louisiana State Univ in Baton Rouge, (he also kept an apartment at an address directly across from Jackson Square at 526 St. Peters, New Orleans, and his granddaughter recalls that he had a mummy in that apartment near his study). I did not get a scan of that letter, but my notes indicate it states he has the honor, on order of "S. M. Le Roi, Mon auguste maître et souverain, la Société Royal a expedidé á votre adresse, par l’entremise de la maison cock, un exemplaire sur toile de la carte de l'Afrique estable sur les ord de S. A. le Khedive Ismail." (Crabitès Collection, University of New Orleans, New Orleans Louisiana, 73-2. Please pardon my transcription, I can read some French because I speak Spanish, but have never studied French).
  2. Rusty Greaves

    Question about the Order of Ismail/Nishan al-Ismail

    Owain, many thanks of the wonderful images of this example of the Order of Ismail. It is great to have your documentation of the case labelling and high resolution image of the hallmark of Fahmy Tewfick Bichay (my post of 4 December 2017 has a lower resolution image of this hallmark). I am very interested in 922f's point about shortages of ribbons dyed in appropriate colors, in this case for the 1940-44 period. I'm not sure whether the colors in the picture you reference of the Grand Officer Class that I posted on 13 November, 2017 (6th photo) may represent a similar dye discrepancy. Some other aspects of the blue enamel color and possibly the green of the wreath in this photo make me think there may be a color shift in the image, rather than significant variation in the actual piece as appears with both the blue & red (pink) of the ribbon on the example in Owain's recent contribution of April 5. I have not seen other examples of those color differences in internet images of these awards. Very interesting and important point you make about potential scarcity from a discussion with Fahmy Tewfick Bichay, fascinating! I'm including 2 images below from Pinterest boards (identified as Grand Officer Class awards) that are very high resolution and particularly good for providing details on the engraving in the gold ornamentation of the arms of the stars in the blue enameled rays for both the chest star and neck badge. In Owain's example above of the April 5, there is no engraving on this gold ornamentation. The resolution of other internet images I have seen of the Commander Class is not good enough to tell whether other examples may lack that engraving. Several photos of 4th Class (Officer) medals are good enough to show the 3-D engraving of this ornamentation is present on most examples I have seen on the internet. Could this also be a variant because it is a casting by Fahmy Tewfick Bichay and not from from Lattes or Tewfick Bichay, or the time period? The wreath on Owain's Commander badge also shows some differences from other examples; all aspects of the wreath, the gold dots (blossoms or fruit?), and the red bands with gold borders all are less detailed than on other examples by Lattes & Tewfick Bichay. The ball finials at the end of each arm also are flatter and have smaller areas of enamel than seen in other images of the neck badge. The examples in my illustration from 4 December 2017 by Fahmy Tewfick Bichay also appear to show this same lack of detail in these design elements, although the photos are not high resolution. In those photos, the chest star also appears to lack the engraving on the gold ornamentation, as well as some difference in the details of the wreath (and these are identified as Grand Officer regalia). High resolution image of the neck badge of the Grand Officer Class of the Order of Ismail. This image shows the 3-D details of the engraviging on the gold ornametaion of the arms of the star better than most other photographs I have seen. From Charles Huggins Pinterest board: Flags of the past. (https://www.pinterest.com/pin/298433912792222444/) High resolution image of the chest star of the Grand Officer Class of the Order of Ismail. This image shows the 3-D details of the engraviging on the gold ornametaion of the enameled arms of the star better than most other photographs I have seen. From Worldantiques Antiques Pinterest site The Khedives of Egypt. (https://www.pinterest.com/pin/7881368074139698/)
  3. Rusty Greaves

    Miniatures of the Middle East & Arab World

    Here is another example of variant design execution on a miniature Order of the Nile. This image is from a current auction of La Galerie Numismatique/Sixbid.com Miniature Order of the Nile identified correctly as the Officer version (4th Class) with some variant design elements. Unlike all other examples of miniatures shown in this thread, this medal features diamond facets only along the primary central rays of each arm on the star design and a very open set of fewer relief spheres forming the medallion margin for the inscription. This example appears to have no enamel in the inscription, it is unclear if this is a design variation or if the enamel could be missing for another reason. The given dimensions of the medal are 27 x 17 mm in diameter. Only the central medallion is identified as gilt (gold?). (https://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=4662&category=133592&lot=3837425)
  4. Rusty Greaves

    Miniatures of the Middle East & Arab World

    Owain, thanks for the rapid reply & clarification. I just want to confirm what you've outlined means that the wings are only worn with miniatures for designating the class of the award? Here is another example of a miniature Kingdom-era Order of the Nile medal with some minor design variation compared with those previously illustrated. This is from a January 2018 auction on eBay. (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/372202693345?clk_rvr_id=1487114366260&rmvSB=true). Obverse view of a Kingdom of Egypt-era miniature Order of the Nile from a past eBay auction. It is identified as made of silver and as the "5th Class" of this award, but probably is the 4th Class (because of the rosette on the ribbon) This example has a variation in the configuration of the suspension device that is seen in some examples previously illustrated on this thread. The most noticeable design variation from other examples shown in previous posts here is the narrower width of the Khedival crown portion of the suspension attaching to the link ring. (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Miniature-Medal-Group-1WW-Coronation-1937-and-Egypt-Order-of-the-Nile-5th-Class-/372202693345?rmvSB=true&clk_rvr_id=1487114366260&nma=true&si=EdnxlJchhEz4pHCHK4ZZ5CyX0a4%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557) Reverse view of the same Kingdom of Egypt-era miniature Order of the Nile medal on a bar exhibiting 3 other miniatures as part of this group, from a January 2018 eBay auction (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Miniature-Medal-Group-1WW-Coronation-1937-and-Egypt-Order-of-the-Nile-5th-Class-/372202693345?rmvSB=true&clk_rvr_id=1487114366260&nma=true&si=EdnxlJchhEz4pHCHK4ZZ5CyX0a4%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557)
  5. Rusty Greaves

    Miniatures of the Middle East & Arab World

    Owain, thanks for your illustrations of these minis. It brings up another design aspect that I am curious whether you can help explain. This group above shows a number of "bands" or "wings" associated with the rosettes (gold-colored for the miniature Republic version of the Order of the Nile). We have had a lively discussion of these on another GMIC thread about the miniatures of the Venezuelan Orden del Libertador ("Venezuela-Order of the Bust of Bolivar-Question" started by lars001on 25 December, 2017 in the "Rest of the World: Military & History" section). First, I wonder if you know what the correct term for this decorative element is? Additionally, what do you know about any variation in the appearance or use of these "wings"? You illustrated a miniature Kingdom of Egypt Order of the Nile on 11 December, 2017 (lower left, 2nd from the left on the ribbon bar with 2 miniatures) that shows the ribbon rosette with a gold-colored set of "wings". I came across a couple images (below) from a current eBay auction showing a miniature of the Kingdom version of the Order of the Nile with silver-colored such "wings" on the ribbon. Although I've looked at several internet images of ribbons for this Kingdom of Egypt era award with rosettes (4th class), only your illustrated mini and the one below show these "wing" features. I am curious what information you can provide about these! Image of a miniature Order of the Nile medal from a group of 7 miniatures offered for sale together on a current eBay auction. (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ribbon-Bar-7-MINIATURES-Order-medal-Belguim-France-Marocco-Sweden-Egypt-Italy-/372219657345) Detailed view of the ribbon & rosette with silver-colored "wings" for the same miniature Order of the Nile medal, illustrated from a group of 7 miniatures on a current eBay auction. (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ribbon-Bar-7-MINIATURES-Order-medal-Belguim-France-Marocco-Sweden-Egypt-Italy-/372219657345)
  6. Michael, Many thanks for additional clarification of ribbons, rosettes, and the variation found in the illustrations of rosettes I posted on March 10. This is very interesting and useful information, I am endebted for your knowledge and generosity in sharing this information. Linking to the theme of the miniature medals of this order, and to complement Uwe's illustration of the 3rd Class Comendador (Commander) on 21 January, I have a few additional internet images of sets of the 5th Class Caballero, Orden del Libertador illustrating the miniature medals and one of the 2nd Class, Gran Oficial: Presentation case for the Venezuelan Orden del Liberator, 5th Class, Caballero (Knight) from the todocoleccion auction website. The image of the horse in the Venezuelan Coat of arms indicates that this predates ~March 2006. This form of the horse, running to the viewers' right and looking over its haunches to the left (heraldry orientation is however referent to the shields' not the viewers' perspective), was replaced with the horse running & facing to the viewers' left (heraldy's right). Somewhat apocryphally, a common story about the design change is that Hugo Chávez initiated legislation for the re-desing of the horse's position in response to a comment made by his daughter, Rosinés Chávez Rodrígues, that the horse appeared to be "looking backward". Two other design changes also were made: 1). apparently to symbolize peasant fighting forces a machete was substituted for the saber in the viewer's upper right quadrant, and 2). and a stylized set of bow & arrows in a quiver were placed with the central lance to recognize Venezuela's indigenous heritage (although the bows & arrows used European design conventions and look nothing like indigenous Venezuelan bows & arrows). (https://www.todocoleccion.net/militaria-medallas/condecoracion-orden-libertador-simon-bolivar-5-clase-5-piezas-extinta-caballero~x89079046) post-2006 re-design of the Venezuelan coat of arms showing the changes discussed in the caption above. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Venezuela#/media/File:Escudo_de_Armas_de_Venezuela_2006.png) Venezuelan coat of arms 1954-2006 fore comparison with the 2006 design changes. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Venezuela#/media/File:Escudo_Nacional_de_Venezuela_(1954-2006).png) Image from todocoleccion auction website of the Venezuelan Orden del Liberator, 5th Class Caballero (Knight) in its presentation case. This image illustrates the obverse of the full-sized medal showing the bust of Simon Bolivar, miniature medal, ribbon bar, and rosette. (https://www.todocoleccion.net/militaria-medallas/condecoracion-orden-libertador-simon-bolivar-5-clase-5-piezas-extinta-caballero~x89079046) Image from todocoleccion auction website of the Venezuelan Orden del Liberator, 5th Class Caballero (Knight) in its presentation case. This image illustrates the reverse of the full-sized medal, miniature medal showing the Venezuelan coat of arms, ribbon bar, and rosette. As noted above, although the low resolution images makes details hard to see, the position of the horse indicates this predates ~March 2006. (https://www.todocoleccion.net/militaria-medallas/condecoracion-orden-libertador-simon-bolivar-5-clase-5-piezas-extinta-caballero~x89079046) Higher resolution image from the "Mi collection personal de medalles civiles y militaries" section of the La Segunda Guerra website (lasegundaguerra.com) showing the Venezuelan Orden del Libertador, 5th Class, Caballero (Knight), also showing the full-sized medal, miniature medal, ribbon bar, and rosette. (http://www.lasegundaguerra.com/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=116913) Illustration from the todocoleccion auction website of the Venezuelan Orden del Libertador, identified as the 2nd Class , Gran Oficial, in presentation case marked N.S. Meyer. Showing the obverse of the neck star, chest badge, miniature medal with a rosette with silver wings on the ribbon, and a rosette also apparently with silver wings-which. Perhaps Michael can clarify the presence of silver wings; his above illustrated guide suggests that a split wing design of gold on the left and silver on the right of the rosette should distinguish the second class of this award and double silver wings the 3rd Class, Comendador (Commander) grade of this award? This set is not identical with the 3rd Class set illustrated by Uwe on Jan 21, that shows the chest badge with the Venezuelan coat of arms rather than the bust of Bolivar, the miniature medal suspended from a ribbon with the miniature of that badge, and the rosette with silver wings. The illustration of the presentation case cover for this set shown on the website does not identify the Class, but a handwritten note (in lovely handwriting, but of uncertain origin) taped to the case reads "Gran Ofical". A typed brevet with this auction item dated 30 July,1965, also states it is the "Clase Gran Oficial". (https://www.todocoleccion.net/militaria-medallas/orden-libertador-simon-bolivar-gran-oficial-republica-venezuela~x55020987)
  7. Rusty Greaves

    Question about the Order of Ismail/Nishan al-Ismail

    Owain, I apologize for my ignorance about the correct protocol for wearing the stars. Does your point mean that the portrait of Farouk I (in my post of 13, November 2017) showing the same order for the Order of Muhammed Ali; the Order of Ismail; & the Order of the Nile is correct and the placement in this recent image of Fuad II is just another variant as long as the sequence is the same?
  8. Rusty Greaves

    Question about the Order of Ismail/Nishan al-Ismail

    Here is an apparently recent photo of King Fuad II wearing three medals, including the Order of Ismail. Note the different positions of the stars for these Orders compared with King Farouk I's portrait in the last image of my post on 13 November, 2017, where the Order of Muhammed Ali & the Order of Ismail are the two superior stars (Muhammed Ali on the left and Ismail on the right) and the Order of the Nile is below them. Recent image of King Fuad II from Royal World Thailand (@royalworldthailand) posted in celebration of his 66th Birthday on 16, January 2018. It shows him wearing the stars of the Order of Muhammed Ali (above), Order of Ismail (left), and the Order of the Nile (right). The sash is for the Grand Cordon of the Order of Muhammed Ali and the badge would be suspended from the decorative bow. (https://instarix.com/p/1614533924415312475_3629956815; photo by Shabab Ahram)
  9. Since we are awaiting information from Michael on rosettes for the Orden del Libertador (there are apparently new details of the ribbon bars on the Condecoraciones de Venezuela website, but they all illustrate miniature badge devices for the Gran Collar, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd classes and a rosette only for the bar of the 4th class, with a plain tricolored ribbon bar for the 5th class), I thought I would add these additional images of rosettes (to complement what Uwe contributed on 10 February, and mine from 12, February) that I came across recently from a frontiernet.net sales catalog of rosettes from 25 December, 2013, updated and © by Eric Bush on 28 February, 2014 (http://www.frontiernet.net/~jackiebush/Rosette/New Folder/new_additions.html). I'm afraid these reiterate a bit of ambiguity about rosettes. Venezuela clutch-back (CB) rosettes for the Orden del Liberator from 2013 sales catalog of frontiernet.net. The additional devices on the rosettes we've been calling "bands" are here identified as "wings". Rather than silver (3rd class according to the Wikipedia guide Uwe illustrated on 10 February), the 2 center variants are identified as white. The guide I illustrated on 12 February may show white as the band for the 4th class rosette. Can anyone explain the use of the variant double bordered rosette shown above 2nd from R? Venezuela buttonhole (BH) rosettes for the Orden del Libertador from 2013 sales catalog of frontiernet.net. This version appears to identify a silver band on the center rosette, and the gold band 2nd from R, that is double bordered rosette. Any suggestions about the color scheme for the "early" version on the far R? Venezuela ribbon bar rosettes with string on back to mount on ribbon bars for the Orden del Libertador from 2013 sales catalog of frontiernet.net, again showing a double bordered rosette at L. Rosettes for the Orden del Libertador from Index of /~jackiebush/Rosette/Blue (http://www.frontiernet.net/~jackiebush/Rosette/Blue/V_OOL_Rosette4.jpg). They appear to show upper L = 1st class (gold band); upper R = 3rd class in a double bordered rosette version (white or silver band?; or silver & gold band? = 2nd class?); lower L = 3rd class (silver or white band?); and 4th class (rosette without band), following the Wikipedia ribbon guide provided by Uwe on 10 February. There are a couple illustrations of individual rosettes that may have silver bands (appearing more silver than the "white" of lower L and upper R rosettes shown here) from this index as well, but as single photos, they have minimal info to be useful in providing a guide to rosette forms.
  10. Rusty Greaves

    South American bow and arrows

    I wanted to contribute a group of photos showing aspects of how Pumé boys in the savannas of Venezuela learn some of their archery skills. Almost all learning occurs in the context of actual use during hunting in the wet season or bow & arrow fishing in the dry season. This is true for most indigenous groups across the world, direct instruction or practice is less important to acquiring archery skills than actual use during hunting or fishing. During the wet seasons, some boys ~13 and older accompany their fathers or other adults and assist with carrying game or heavier tools such as machetes, and engage in some hunting during these foraging trips. Actual target practice is very uncommon. I have only observed 2 bouts of target practice during my 30 months of fieldwork with these folks. Very young boys, ~2-5, are seen more frequently "playing" with small toy bows (made of softwood and a bowstring of old nylon string) and arrows made from the midribs of moriche (Mauritia flexuosa) palm leaves. Interestingly, these same "toy" boys are infrequently used to stalk a particular fish species (Pristobrycon sp., one of the piranhas) when dry season rainfall conditions upstream and biomass presence allows their movement into these flooded savanna areas, using very shallow channels through low shrub-forested portions of the savanna as the water table is dropping. Although I sometimes carried my bows & arrows on fishing trips, they are too cumbersome on the much longer hunting trips where I focused on data collection and mapping the travel routes. In contrast, during fishing many trips are short distances to sitting platforms built along stream segments and involve long periods of waiting for fish to be channeled near these fishing stations, and data collection was not inhibited by the addition of my carrying a set of bow and arrows. Being much less skilled than the Pumé, I had no luck adjusting for the refraction in water and never caught any fish this way. After a couple of years, the Pumé wondered whether I really knew how to use a bow and arrow. So they asked whether I actually could shoot with a bow & arrow one morning after the frequent 11-hour all-night dances, with a large group of men, women, and children sitting around following the dance. When I said I did, they instantly produced a bow and arrow and asked me to confirm that by shooting at a 30 cm long x 15 cm diameter log in the middle of the dance plaza, ~10m from where I was standing. I nocked my arrow and prepared for complete humiliation, but much to my surprise I hit the log dead center! I had not done much archery since my childhood, and fortunately was never asked to repeat that test. Two Pumé boys engaged in the first target practice event I saw near the edge of the main wet season camp in 1993. The boy in the foreground in a red shirt is ~15 and the other boy is ~14 years old. The older boy is just about to release his lanceolate-pointed arrow at the target and the other boy is just nocking his arrow. They are shooting at a target that is 2 worn-out storage baskets suspended ~chest high on 2 sticks placed in the sand for this practice event. The target is ~8m from where they are shooting, just at the edge of the camp clearing. Boys' bows & arrows of the type shown are slightly shorter than the ~2m long bows and arrows used by adult men, but the construction is identical. Boys' bows average 1485 mm long compared with 1853 mm for adult men's bows. Boys' arrows (small game, fishing, and lanceolate type arrows) average =1397 mm in length compared with men's that have mean lengths of 1850 mm for small game & fishing arrows (the uppermost 2 point forms shown in my first photo on the 10, January 2018 post above) and 1512 mm for lanceolate arrows. Like most South American Native bows, they are made of a dense palm wood. The Pumé use primarily macanilla palm (Astrocaryum jauari) stemwood for bows and make their bowstrings from the wild/semi-cultivated bromeliad fiber of Ananas lucidus, known locally as curagua, one of the same fibers I've identified above that is used in several components of arrow manufacture. The same 2 Pumé boys during the same target practice bout in 1993. The boy in the foreground is just about to release his small game/fishing arrow at the target. The Pumé use the tertiary mode of release where the nock of the arrow is held between the thumb against the 1st (the most proximal) or 2nd digit of the first finger, and the bowstring is drawn with the 3rd digits (most distal) of the first & second fingers. Note the presence of an extra length of bowstring visible on the upper arm of each bow. This is a common feature of most South American bows and is a back-up strategy both in case some portion of the bowstring breaks while a hunter is out foraging and as an extra piece of cordage should a situational need arise away from camp. The same shot as shown in the previous image just after the boy has released his arrow at the target. Two young Pumé boys engaged in the second example of target practice I have ever observed, seen during the dry season of 2006. The boy in red is ~7 and the other boy is ~8 years old. They are using the margin of the dance plaza for this practice. The target is a discarded storage basket ~4m from where they are shooting. The boy in red is just about to release his arrow and the other boy is starting to draw his bow. Young Pumé boy (~2 years old) with a "toy" bow made of softwood and an old piece of nylon string in a dry season camp, 2005. The arrows are made from moriche palm leaf midribs. Young boys get their first archery practice with these small bows, shooting at various trash around camp or small lizards. The same 2-year old boy with his first bow, made for him by his father (the boy pictured below in 1992 on the left), dry season camp 2005. Three Pumé brothers using the same form of small softwood bows (averaging 873 mm in length) with nylon bowstrings as illustrated above for the very young boy's "toy" bow for a specialized seasonal pursuit of a particular piranha species. The boy on the left is ~14, the center boy is ~19, and the youngest brother on the right is ~8 years old. The boys on the left and center have and short fishing arrows made from cultivated arrow canes without fletching. The boy on the right has moriche palm leaf midrib arrows like those that the 2-year old has in the image above ( mean length=761 mm). This is during a portion of the dry season of 1992 when a moderately large piranha species (Pristobrycon sp.) is moving through shallow waters in areas of the savanna with short shrubs as the water table is dropping. The fishing technique involves stalking along these ephemeral "channels" and shooting the fish with these small arrows. I have seen men into their early 20s employing this method periodically when ideal conditions bring this piranha species into the areas used by this group of Pumé hunter-gatherers. The moriche palm leaf midrib arrows are more commonly employed in this fishing method than the small fishing arrows the two older boys have here, even by young men into their early 20s. These moriche palm midrib arrows are expediently manufactured prior to fishing and often were damaged or discarded and not returned to camp. I have seen a few examples made with small points made from a sharpened piece of wire attached to the midrib with curagua fiber and Symphonia globulifera tree resin.
  11. Michael, Even having only dipped my toes in some of the astonishing variation apparent in the Orden del Libertador, I do appreciate the complexities of trying to sort out the design and manufacturing differences evident in this award. Thanks for your information about which manufacturers used the version of Bolivar's bust featuring his arm and hand tucked into his jacket. That is fascinating information about the reasons for some apparent differences in how the arm appears being the hand-fitting of the bust into he enameled frame. I'm sure the other followers of this thread also appreciate your opinion that other elements that can be hard to see in some photos are critical to identifying different manufacturers such as the stars on the epaulettes, their angle, details on the jacket embroidery, or the number of buttons on Bolivar's jacket. We await your help with so many other topics about these medals! Rusty
  12. Rusty Greaves

    Miniatures of the Middle East & Arab World

    I am curious whether a couple images in this thread show miniatures of the Republic of Egypt version of the Order of the Nile medal. In 922F's post of 10 December, 2017, is the medal 6th from the left (or right) a mini post-1953 Order of the Nile? Similarly, is the medal shown in the second photo, 3rd from the left of Owain's post of 12 December, 2017 also a Republic Order of the Nile mini? Below is an image identified on the La Galerie Numismatique auction site as a miniature of the Republic of Egypt Order of the Nile. The imagery of the central design and the surrounding star of this piece seems quite a bit more detailed compared with the two medals in my question about 922f's and Owain's photos. It seems unlikely that the medal shown below is mistakenly identified as a miniature (dimensions = 25 x 20 mm), given the less detailed design compared with the full-sized medal shown in the second photo (and link to better World Awards images under that photo). If the above examples are the Order of the Nile, then why are they more abbreviated versions-just different manufacturers? Miniature Order of the Nile from La Galerie Numismatique, silver partly gilt, and enamel 25 x 20 mm. It is described as a "Knights Cross Miniature (5th Class)". However, several sources (including Megan Robertson's Medals of the World website; as well as a post by Owain in his 17 September 2012 response to a thread titled "Egypt-New Collector-Order of the Nile", started by Moheb on 10 September 2012 here in the Middle East & Arab States section, that has some very useful information about variation in Egyptian manufacturers of the full-sized Kingdom of Egypt Order of the Nile and some design differences) indicate that the Republic of Egypt post-1953 version of this Order is probably only awarded as a Collar or Grand Cordon class. (https://www.coins-la-galerie-numismatique.com/online-shop/orders-medals/order-nile). The imagery is derived from ancient Egyptian depictions of the political/mythological unification of Upper & Lower Egypt (see third image below). Image from Medals of the World (medals.org) of the obverse of the Republic of Egypt full-sized Order of the Nile, Grand Cordon star made by Tewfick Bichay showing greater detail of the central image of the unification of Egypt than on the miniature from La Galerie Numismatique shown above (http://www.medals.org.uk/egypt/egypt-republic/egypt-republic002.htm). Better details of the design of this full-sized medal can be seen by clicking on two thumbnail images on World Awards (https://wawards.org/en/egypt/republic-of-egypt/order-of-the-nile.html). They show the intertwined lotus on the right and the papyrus on the left (see discussion of imagery under the next drawing below). The enamel frame surrounding the central design has 15 stylized lotus blossoms. The imagery on the Republic's version of the Order of the Nile is derived from some of the many variant ancient Egyptian depictions symbolizing the ~5000 year-old unification of Egypt. This drawing of a relief panel on the stone throne of Pharaoh Senwosret I shows the gods Seth & Horus uniting the two (formerly divided) kingdoms of Upper & Lower Egypt. This throne dates to the 12th Dynasty (~1956-1911 BC), long after this has become an established icon in ancient Egyptian political decoration. In this version of the unification, Seth (on left) binds a lotus (the image of Upper Egypt-the southern portion by our geography) and Horus (on right) ties papyrus (symbolic of Lower Egypt, the northern part of the country) to the central sema symbol. The central dividing image is a symbol for the lungs (each of the brother gods have their feet on one lobe) attached to the trachea, which is the hieroglyphic symbol sema representing "union". In most written versions of this glyph it looks more "jar-like" through shortening of the trachea, as in the form adopted for the Republic of Egypt central icon on the Order of the Nile shown above. The suspension device connected to the link ring in the photo of the miniature Order of the Nile medal (fist photo above) further reiterates this unity theme in the symbolism of a lotus flower on the right and a papyrus bloom on the left. Other images depicting the union of Upper and Lower Egypt also employ a sedge for Upper Egypt or a bee to symbolize Lower Egypt. The well-known Narmer Palette (>5000 years old) is usually thought to depict this conquest of the "Two Lands" that became the unified Egypt with militaristic imagery of King Narmer (wearing the white Crown of Upper Egypt) smiting a prisoner with a cudgel on the recto side and wearing the Red Crown of Upper Egypt on the verso side. The hieroglyphs in the cartouche at the top of the trachea portion of the sema symbol are the throne name of Pharaoh Senwosret I: Kheperkara (http://www.joanlansberry.com/setfind/uniting.html). Image from Wikipedia of the post-1953 Republic of Egypt badge suspended on the Collar of the Order of the Nile showing a modern image adaptation of the ancient Egyptian theme of the unification of (Upper & Lower) Egypt. It retains the binding of lotus and papyrus, but has changed the sema image and inserted stylized ancient Egyptian water symbols under the figures' feet, presumably in reference to the Nile. The two male figures with pendulous breasts ("moobs"), fat rolls, and large bellies derive from common versions of this image depicting the god Hapi, frequently associated with this political art image during the 19th Dynasty (~1291-1189 BC). Hapi is a deity associated with the annual flooding of the Nile. His breasts and belly are considered to represent the fertility of the river and its renewal of the floodplain with the annual inundation that brought organic material to enrich the soils of the valley terraces. The gold design in the enamel probably depicts repeated sets of the three Great Pyramids of Giza (9 km west of the Nile), possibly reiterated to resemble ancient Egyptian imagery of water in reference the River Nile. The surrounding margin designs are stylized lotus blossoms interspersed with rubies. The suspension device depicts three lotus blossoms. Solid gold, rubies, turquoise, and enamel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Nile). Would someone volunteer a translation of the inscription on the superior enameled portion of the badge?
  13. Rusty Greaves

    Walking Sticks - and as Weapons

    I have a couple of corrections to my previous post about the Hambukushu moramo cudgel. First, obviously the length is 59.5 cm, not mm. Second, a colleague of mine with almost 40 years of experience working on human rights issues in Botswana, Namibia, Zimbabwe, and other locations provided some interesting information about the wood it is made from. First, he corrected the Latin binomial of this tree that I got from a published resource, it is Baikiaea plurijuga. The wood is not listed as threatened by CITES, however indigenous groups in Botswana are prohibited from harvesting and using any of this wood. Some conservation groups do feel that logging has significantly reduced the incidence of mature trees through over-harvesting so that it is "near-threatened". The Botswana government does allow some private companies to continue to cut these trees. Indigenous people with a tool such as the moramo cudgel can be arrested for both having a piece of this wood they are not allowed to possess because it is threatened and a valuable timber product the government controls, and because the implement is considered an indication of poaching activity (the government's restrictions on indigenous subsistence hunting is controversial among those groups, at the same time the government permits and encourages outside safari hunters). A similar position is taken regarding ostrich eggshell products. Traditionally, "Bushman" and other local groups used ostrich eggshells as water canteens and made beads from the broken shells. That is now illegal and indigenous people are arrested if found in possession of such beads. The correct scientific name for the wood that the Hambukushu mamba stick & walking stick combo tool I illustrated on 2 February is probably made from is Bukea africana. Additional common names include indigenous terms: kudumela, monato, maul, mufhulu, mosheshe, nkalati, ohehe, and burkea; the Afrikaans term is: Wildesering; and English common names are: red syringa, Rhodesian ash, and wild syringa.
  14. Estimado emlynccs, It is a pleasure to see your post about the Orden del Liberator here in this discussion. I have really enjoyed the information on your Condeccoraciones de Venezuela web page in trying to contribute to this thread and another on the Cruz del Ejercito Venezolano. Many thanks for your work to provide valuable information about such an array of the Venezuelan awards! Since you have opened with information about some of the variation in the portraits of Simon Bolivar, I am curious what insight you have about variants that include Bolivar's arm with his hand tucked into his jacket? Examples of this form of the bust seem to be less common, but versions with the arm appear somewhat frequently on full-sized medals shown on auction sites, what is your opinion? There also appear to be different variants showing the arm in slightly diverse positions relative to the frame around the bust. The only images I have encountered of miniatures with this form of Bolivar's bust showing his arm are shown in the initial post in this thread by Lars (25 December 2017) in the left and middle examples with Bolivar facing left and in obverse image of my post of 11 January. I am including three images of full-sized awards below with slightly different versions of the arm on the Bust of Bolivar from the website for Medal-Medaille. I also found two examples on alamy.com showing what are identified as an Officer's and Knight's medals with slightly different forms of Bolivar's arm placement relative to the frame around the bust, but those images may be copyrighted (http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-order-of-the-liberators-bust-or-of-simon-bolivar-created-in-1874-an-51659304.html). In the alamy images, the arm of the bust on the Officer's medal is similar to that illustrated below for the Commander's neck badge, although there may be other slight difference in the details of the Liberator's portrait. The Knight's medal example from alamy more closely resembles the image below of the Officer's medal, although the cuff is more fully exposed within the frame on the alamy image. I am very interested in your opinions about the reasons for these variations. Your knowledge of differences in designs by the various manufacturers of these awards is very interesting. Saludos, Rusty Obverse image of the bust of Bolivar from Medal-Medaille identified as the Commander Class neck badge of this award (3rd Class) of a full-sized medal showing a variant form with Bolivar's arm visible in the portrait of the Liberator (http://www.medal-medaille.com/sold/product_info.php?cPath=498_100&products_id=1132). Obverse image of the bust of Bolivar from Medal-Medaille identified as the Officer Class of this award (4th Class) on a full-sized medal showing a slightly different form with Bolivar's arm from the Commanders badge shown above (http://www.medal-medaille.com/sold/product_info.php?cPath=498_100&products_id=1135). Obverse image of the bust of Bolivar from Medal-Medaille identified as the Knight Class full-sized medal of this award (5th Class) showing a variant form with apparently less of Bolivar's arm visible (unless this is because of the angle of the photo) than in the other two examples above (http://www.medal-medaille.com/sold/product_info.php?cPath=498_100&products_id=3322).
  15. Rusty Greaves

    Walking Sticks - and as Weapons

    Here is my illustration of the Hambukushu cudgel (moramo) used to dispatch large game that a colleague gave me. This is not a walking stick, but I promised to illustrate this tool here. This is primarily employed for delivering the coup de grâce to smaller game such as duiker, springbok, impala, or reedbuck, as well as larger ungulates such as kudu, gemsbok, eland hartebeest, zebra, and even buffalo. It also may be used for the final kill of carnivores and scavengers that are killed to protect their cattle herds. This implement also may be used to dispatch cattle (although most pastoralists rarely kill animals in their herds, relying on milk & blood as the primary products from their cattle resource wealth). The Hambukushu infrequently hunt hippopotamus using a larger harpoon implement similar to the one I illustrated in the 4th photo in my post on 10 January under the "South American bows and arrows" thread in this section. They also infrequently hunt elephants (primarily because of the long standing ivory trade that goes back ~ 1000 years in parts of the Congo Basin where colleagues of mine have been able to research documents), but use very different technology (many pits & deadfalls to avoid direct confrontation with such dangers quarry) and strategies than for other large game. This moramo was made a Hambukushu man named Tiro in 1992, living in the Okavango River Delta region of Botswana. It is a relatively new example, but has been used. The wood is identified as "mahogany", which is probably Baikigea plunjuga. This wood goes by various common names such as Rhodesian teak, Rhodesian mahogany, and Zambezi redwood. The mamba stick I illustrated on February 2 is probably made from a softer but supple wood that is variously called moshosho (mosheshe), or ohehe that is probably Burkia africana, commonly used to make a range of tool & weapon handles as well as arrow mainshafts. Moramo, a Hambukushu animal cudgel from the Okavango River Delta region of Botswana. This example is 59.5 mm long. Close-up of the distal end ("head) of the moramo cudgel showing good detail on the manufacturing marks.
  16. Rusty Greaves

    Miniatures of the Middle East & Arab World

    Owain, thanks for posting the additional information about the Order of Muhammed Ali and the photos of the obverse & reverse of the silver medal. I came across those same images on Colnect website (https://colnect.com/en/medals/medal/6631-Order_of_Muhammad_Ali_Silver_Medal-General_Issues-Egypt). Is that example a miniature of the silver medal? In your post of 24 January, 2016 on the Kingdom of Egypt (1922-1953) thread by Egyptian Zogist (30 October, 2015) you illustrated the reverse of a silver medal and the obverse of a gold medal - shown below: Image in post of 24 January, 2016 by Owain on the "Kingdom of Egypt (1922-1953)" GMIC thread by Egyptian Zogist (started 30 October, 2015) illustrating the reverse of a silver medal (L) and the obverse of a gold medal (L). (http://gmic.co.uk/topic/66997-kingdom-of-egypt-1922-1953/) Below are illustrations of another miniature of the Order of the Nile from the a current auction on the UK eBay website (also paired with an OBE) that shows different configurations from a couple of the other examples illustrated here. This Order of the Nile miniature has a similar inscription & calligraphy to that in the 6th photo of my post of 12 January. It shows several differences in the configuration of the background star embellishment, border of the central medallion, the crown, and especially the suspension. This example closely resembles the medal from Owain's posted Kingdom of Egypt miniature group of 11 December, 2017 (upper row far right). The reverse of Owain's medal is shown in his post of 12 December, 2017 (also upper row far right, showing a different central boss or attachment on that reverse face). No descriptive information is provided on the eBay listing. Obverse of a miniature of the Order of the Nile obverse (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MINIATURE-MEDALS-MEMBER-OF-THE-BRITISH-EMPIRE-EGYPT-ORDER-OF-THE-NILE-/202224760042) Reverse of the same miniature medal pair from eBay UK (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MINIATURE-MEDALS-MEMBER-OF-THE-BRITISH-EMPIRE-EGYPT-ORDER-OF-THE-NILE-/202224760042)
  17. And here are two other guides to ribbon bars fro the Orden del Libertador. Both do show the color scheme order of red on the right, blue in the middle & yellow on the left as seen on the bars worn by the military personnel shown in my previous post. However, the devices on the ribbons and rosettes are not shown in a way consistent with the other 2 guides that Uwe & I have been consulting. Ribbon bars for the Venezuelan Orden del Libertador from the website ColeccionesMilitares.com by Antonio Prieto Barrio. (http://www.coleccionesmilitares.com/cintas/america/venezuela2.gif) Ribbon bars for the Orden del Libertador from a listing by Eric Bush link on ODM (http://www.medals.org.uk/venezuela/venezuela-links.htm) (http://www.frontiernet.net/~ericbush/FOREIGN/SA/Venezuela.html ) ©Eric Bush
  18. Rusty Greaves

    Miniatures of the Middle East & Arab World

    Here are a couple additional images of miniatures for the Order of the Nile that are slightly different from the example illustrated above on 24 January. Image from eMedals of the obverse of a pair of miniature, including the Order of the Nile, next to a British OBE award. The Order of the Nile mini measures 21 x 31 mm and is silver gilt. Although not identified to class, the rosette indicates it is the Officer, 4th Class miniature. No manufacturer is identified for this piece. (eMedals: https://www.emedals.com/europe/great-britain/orders-decorations/order-of-the-british-empire/a-british-egyptian-miniature-pair-gb2692) Image of the reverse of the same pair of miniatures, Order of the Nile on the left. (eMedals: https://www.emedals.com/europe/great-britain/orders-decorations/order-of-the-british-empire/a-british-egyptian-miniature-pair-gb2692) Oblique image from eMedals of the obverse of the same pair of miniatures, showing additional details of the Order of the Nile miniature. (eMedals: https://www.emedals.com/europe/great-britain/orders-decorations/order-of-the-british-empire/a-british-egyptian-miniature-pair-gb2692) Image from Medal-Medaille of a set of the Order of the Nile, Officer, 4th Class full-size and miniature. Silver with white & blue enamel. Both the full-size and miniature are signed by the manufacturer "LATTES". The case label reads: "J.LATTES, FOURNISSEUR DE S.M. Le ROI D’EGYPTE & DE L’ÉTAT, LE CAIRE’" according to the description for this auction listing. Measurements are not given for either medal. The Medal-Medaille description includes the following translation of the inscription on the central boss of the full-sized award as: "What benefits Egypt owes to the Nile, her source of prosperity and happiness". This example possibly dates to the 1930s or early 1940s. The Medal-Medaille description states that: "Early examples of the order are made by 'A.Lattes'; and late royal examples by 'Maison Lattes, J. Weinber & Co.' with an Arabic inscription to the interior of the case. The presence of the words ‘& DE L’ÉTAT’ suggest this example is towards the end of the ‘J. Lattes’ period." (http://www.medal-medaille.com/sold/product_info.php?cPath=498_39&products_id=35) Image of the same Officer Class Order of the NIle within the presentation case. (http://www.medal-medaille.com/sold/product_info.php?cPath=498_39&products_id=35) Obverse (left) view of the miniature Order of the Nile and reverse views (right) of both the full-size and miniature of this set. Note that the inscription in the central boss of the miniature is different from that shown on the example above and from that illustrated on 24 January from Medal-Medaille. The frame surrounding the central medallion also has a different configuration of the "ball" border motif from that the others as well. The other two miniatures are measured at 21.44 mm in diameter (Medal-Medaille example shown on 24 January) and 21 x 31 mm for the eMedals mini shown above here. Given that the 4th class award should be ~52-53 mm in diameter and measure ~74.5 mm vertically including the crown suspension, this miniature appears to be approximately the same diameter as the other two minis. The difference in the inscription is therefore unlikely to be due simply any difference in the size of the area of the central boss. However, it clearly is a different calligraphy than used on the other two minis (it is closer on this piece to that of the full-size examples) and has no inscription around the margin of this central medallion boss. (http://www.medal-medaille.com/sold/product_info.php?cPath=498_39&products_id=35)
  19. Rusty Greaves

    Miniatures of the Middle East & Arab World

    Owain, You illustrated and discussed the gold (obverse) & silver (reverse) versions of the Order of Muhammad Ali medals on 24 January, 2016 in the thread "Kingdom of Egypt (1922-1953)" started by Egyptian Zogist on 30 October, 2015 in this section Middle East & Arab States. Are these considered the miniatures of the Order of Muhammad Ali awards? Do these 2 medals represent the 2 lowest classes of the award? I have seen these medals identified as "miniatures", but I am uncertain whether that is correct or if there may be other miniatures that use the more elaborate medal designs of the Grand Cordon or Commander classes for this Order? Most of the images of these medals that I can find on the internet are relatively low resolution, the following two are better quality, showing only the obverse. Rusty Image from eBay of a Player's Cigarettes' card image of the obverse of the gold version of the medal for the Order of Muhammed Ali, showing good detail of this medal. From a series of 90 cards depicting military medals and orders from the world. This set of cards was printed in 1927, issued by John Player & Sons Branch of the Imperial Tobacco co. of Great Britain and Ireland, Ltd. (https://www.ebay.ie/itm/82-The-Medal-of-the-Order-of-Mohammed-Ali-Egyp-War-Decorations-Medals-Card-/401310801054?hash=item5d6ffcdc9e) Photographic image from the World Awards.com website showing fair detail of the obverse of a silver versions of the Order of Muhammed Ali medal. (from: https://wawards.org/en/egypt/kingdom-of-egypt/order-of-muhammad-ali.html)
  20. Rusty Greaves

    Venezuela - Cross of the Army

    Following the 3rd & 4th images in my post of 29 January, 2018, here are a few illustrations of another non-regulation variant form of the Cruz del Ejecito that probably represents early trial designs that were never authorized as official awards. This example comes from the Medal-Medaille website and has green enamel on the obverse arms of the cross (Condecoraciones de Venezuela calls this a Maltese cross; Medal-Medaille calls this a cross pattée; the Borna Barac guide calls a cross with 3 "facets" cross patonce), and a non-standard green & white ribbon. The reverse also has the same unusual inscription that appears on at least one other of the trial examples illustrated on 29 January. The Condecoraciones de Venezuela website mentions these variants; see the last paragraph of my translation above from 29, November, 2017. The Medal-Medaille website identifies this as a 3rd class of this award, but in all likelihood it is simply a design variant made either prior to June, 1952 when the decree for this award was issued or just after that date, depending on when its design was standardized for issue as the highest honor of the Venezuelan army. Variant form of the Cruz del Ejercito that shows green enamel instead of red and a non-standard color scheme for the ribbon. This design form was never approved for issue as an award. (http://www.medal-medaille.com/sold/product_info.php?products_id=301) Close-up obverse view of the variant form of the Cruz del Ejercito shown above with the green enamel. (http://www.medal-medaille.com/sold/product_info.php?products_id=301) Reverse view of the same variant Cruz del Ejercito. (http://www.medal-medaille.com/sold/product_info.php?products_id=301) Close-up reverse view of the same variant form of the Cruz del Ejercito shown above showing the unusual inscription "FUERZAS TERRSTRES DE VENEZUELA" (as seen only on the variant form noted above on 29 January) that contrasts with the reverse inscriptions of the official versions of this medal that include the two variant forms: "CRUZ DEL EJERCITO. VENZOLANO." and "FUERZAS TERRESTRES VENEZOLANAS" as shown above in this thread. (http://www.medal-medaille.com/sold/product_info.php?products_id=301) Close-up reverse view of the same variant form of the same Cruz del Ejercito medal showing the manufacturer's mark on the lower arm for N.S. MEYER INC. NEW YORK. (http://www.medal-medaille.com/sold/product_info.php?products_id=301)
  21. Here is a higher resolution image of a couple of these bars shown above for Padrino Lopez, here worn by Carlos Augusto Leal Telleria, Mayor General, Comandante General de la Milicia Bolivariana http://www.milicia.mil.ve/milicia/images/linea_de_mando/2017/mgleal17.png
  22. Uwe, Thank you for addressing my question, illustrating your point, and helping to educate me on more standard practices regarding ribbons & bars. I also am happy to see your high resolution illustration of the 3rd class mini. Given the existence of so much variation prior to the 1922 decree, as well as the 2006 & 2010 changes, the historic examples will certainly show a lot of non-standard differences. The only other Venezuelan medal I have investigated, the Cruz del Ejercito discussed in another thread here in the "Rest of the World: Militia & History" forum section, has some institutionalized variance in how it is worn from international practice. As I translated from the Condecoraciones de Venezuela website description for that awards: (the Cruz del Ejercito or Cruz de Fuerzas Terrestres Venezolanas) - 1st Class: insignia worn on a neck collar, 2nd Class: insignia worn on the chest, and 3rd Class: insignia worn pinned to a ribbon. It is evident that the appearance of these four [sic-3?-RG) break with the classical scheme of presentation of insignia, not only internationally but also from the [Venezuelan-RG] Order of the Liberator [Simón Bolívar-RG] and the Order of Francisco Miranda, that consist [The Orden del Libertador and the Orden Francisco de Miranda-RG] of the 1st Class worn on a sash, 2nd Class worn on a neck collar, and 3rd Class insignia worn on the chest, which results in a divergence [from conventions-RG], especially for the 2nd Class, so that [the Cruz del Ejercito-RG] instead of having a badge or cross complementing the insignia, has [only-RG] the same insignia, resulting in a missing element that would give a harmonious presentation of the medal. As a further complication (I know, none of us want this), I have been looking at images of military recipients of the Orden del Libetador to try and see if the bar with rosette & band split between silver & gold appears for a 2nd class award. I can't find a good images of such, but a couple individuals who I know received this order do have multiple photos on the internet, a couple better resolution ones, and they do not appear to be backwards. However, in looking at what should be the bar for a 5th class award on images of Carmen Teresa Melendez Rivas (she is identified as having the Caballero class award, rather than any of the post-2010 differently named classes that are limited to just 3 classes) and Vladimir Padrino Lopez (who is usually listed as having received the 2nd class award of the Orden del Libertador) I'm finding some ambiguity. If the attached first image of Melendez Rivas shows the bar for her award (top row center?), the color scheme is backwards from both sets of references we have identified: red on the right, blue in the middle and yellow on the left. Some of the ribbons of the medals you & I have illustrated show this color order. On images of Padrino Lopez, the bar also seems to show a reversal of colors, and the emblem on the bar appears to be that for the 3rd class of this award. Do you think the bar on the far left in the second photo should be that for the Orden del Libertador? I am even more confused by the bars in the third photo showing Padrino Lopez's bars. The uppermost central bar, the second row center bar, and possibly the second row far left bar (is this the bar for his Orden del Libertador award?) all appear to have the color reversal. Are there Bolivarian versions of these color schemes that are different from the guides we have found? I apologize for muddying the war again Uwe, hopefully this is just my ignorance Rusty Is the bar worn in the middle of the upper row the 5th class (Caballero) Orden del Libertador awarded to Carmen Teresa Melendez Rivas? (http://www.minci.gob.ve/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/26.jpg) The bar on the far left worn by Vladimir Padrino Lopez (General en Jefe, Ministro del Poder Popular para la Defensa) appears to be the 3rd class of the Orden del Libertador, he is usually listed as having been awarded the 2nd Class of this order. (http://www.elpolitico.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/vladimir-padrino-lopez-ministro-para-la-defensa-con-la-mano-levantada.jpg) Is the bar on second row far left, partially under the Vladimir Padrino Lopez's lapel that for the Orden del Libertador? What is the top center bar and the second row center bar for? I cannot find a Venezuelan guide to bars that identifies this color scheme with the red on the right, blue in the middle, and yellow on the left. (http://www.minci.gob.ve/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/26.jpg)
  23. Uwe, many thanks for your clarification. I was trying to extend the information from the bars & ribbons section of Condecoraciones de Venezuela as that is the only literature I have about what the ribbon band distinctions might be, obviously overly enthusiastically! (http://condecoracionesdevenezuela.com/identificador-de-cintas/#). Do you have any written references on that you could share or is it from your knowledge & collections?
  24. Rusty Greaves

    Venezuela - Cross of the Army

    Images of the designs for the bars of each different class of the Cruz del Ejercito award can be seen on the Condecoraciones de Venezuela website's section on Ribbons & Bars ("Cintas") as the first 3 illustrations under "Componente Ejercito". http://condecoracionesdevenezuela.com/identificador-de-cintas/ Award ceremony presenting the 1st Class Cruz del Ejercito (the "Cruz de Las Fuerzas Terrestres Venezolanas") to Carmen Teresa Meléndez Rivas on January 10, 2014. Meléndez Rivas is a Navy Vice Admiral (first woman to hold this rank) and this award was given during her tenure as Minister of Defense. The presenting officer is Major General Alexis Ascensión López Ramirez, who resigned as head of Venezuela's National Defense Council on June 13, 2017 because of his disagreement with the creation of the controversial "Constituent Assembly" by Venezuela's president, Nicolás Maduro. (photo credit: Jesús Roa - http://www.noticias24.com/venezuela/noticia/216860/ejercito-bolivariano-otorgo-la-cruz-de-las-fuerzas-terrestres-a-la-ministra-carmen-melendez/) Major General Alexis Ascensión López Ramirez showing the ribbon bar for the 1st Class Cruz del Ejercito: third row down, center. In addition to renouncing his position as head of Venezuela's National Defense Council over the creation of the ANC ("Constituent Assembly"), López Ramirez also expressed support in June 2017 for the ex-Fiscal General de la República, Luisa Ortega Díaz, who fled the country and denounced corruption of the Maduro regime. Both of these acts by López Ramirez (as well as those of Ortega Díaz) are the most visible defections by high level members of the Venezuelan government against policies of the Venezuelan president and his party supporters. (Globovisión-http://elvenezolanonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/mayor-general-cambio-descripción-twitter.png)
  25. In wading though more of the information on Condecoraciones de Venezuela, I have only been able to confirm some of the recognized chaos in designs affecting both the full-sized and miniature medals for the Orden del Liberator, as is also quite apparent among the examples and information in this thread. That website identifies the different names of this award as: Medalla de Distinctión ("Medal of Distinction", from it's origin in 1854-1880); Condecoración del Busto del Liberator ("Award/Order of the Bust of the Liberator",1880-1922); Orden del Liberator ("Order of the Liberator", 1922-2010); Orden de las y los Libetadores ("Order of the [female] and [male] Liberators", 2010-present). Condecoraciones de Venezuela indicates that the full-sized awards of the Orden del Liberator show significant variation in size according to class (1st, 2nd, & 3rd = 50 x 54 mm; 4th & 5th = 35 x 28 mm) prior to 1922. This website also indicates that while all medals were supposed to be made of gold or silver gilt, prior to 2006 few examples fully complied with these requirements. I have encountered one additional manufacturer of the full-sized award. Fayolle Pouteau of Paris is identified as the manufacturer of a Grand Officer (2nd Class) set awarded to an Italian diplomat in 1932 that is illustrated from the same set of auction images as those below from Sixbid/La Galerie Numismatique in April 2017 (https://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=3427&category=71803&lot=2844586). A set of images on eMedals for a current auction illustrates the manufacturer's mark of Foyolle Pouteau on the obverse of an example identified as a 3rd Class Commander's star, c1900 (https://www.emedals.com/venezuela-an-order-of-the-liberator-3rd-class-commander-star-by-fayolle-pouteur-c-1900). As contributors have noted in this thread, miniature versions of the Orden del Liberator have great diversity in their forms. For the miniatures, Condecoraciones de Venezuela notes that their use almost certainly goes back to ~1880, although the website cannot identify any specific period or date when the use of the miniature was established by any official protocol. The miniature is not officially recognized (and officially standardized) until 2006. Private manufacturers apparently made a wide variety of miniature forms until ~50 years ago when Myer and Russell Uniform produced standardized forms, although there were no formal regulations of the form through the extant decrees or regulations at that time. I am including additional examples of three miniatures. The first two images appear to show an older medal (see note under the second images suggesting they are the same medal). Condecoraciones de Venezuela's section on ribbons & bars (http://condecoracionesdevenezuela.com/identificador-de-cintas/#) illustrates the different class designations for the 1st-5th Classes (described below under the first illustration), possibly from the 2006 regulations. The rosette has been part of the full-sized award since 1880, but that website indicates they were not (at least partly) standardized until 1922. Reverse (L) and obverse (R) of an Orden del Libertador miniature from Sixbid.com (La Galerie Numismatique). Identified as a "1st Class Grand Cross miniature". Condecoraciones de Venezuela shows the ribbon for the 1st Class as having a horizontal gold band in addition to the rosette, the 2nd Class as having a silver band & rosette, the 3rd class with a miniature of the star with the Venezuelan coat of arms as shown in Uwe's example in the post of 21 January, 2017, the 4th class with only a rosette, and the 5th Class as solely the tricolored ribbon with no other device (from the post 2006 regulations?). The rosette shown in Uwe's 21 January, 2017 post looks just like that shown in the Condecoraciones de Venezuela website section on ribbons for the 2nd class award. The above illustrated example is 18 x 15 mm in diameter and silver gilt with enamel, the ribbon is stated to be original. From an Auction on 19-20 April, 2017, session 3, Lot 3060 (https://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=3427&category=71803&lot=2844585) Obverse (L) and reverse (R) of an Orden del Libertador miniature from Sixbid.com (La Galerie Numismatique). Identified as a "3rd Class Commander's Cross miniature". However, as noted above, the gold band with the rosette suggests it may be a 1st Class miniature. The description states this medal measures 17 x 14 mm in diameter and made of "gilt bronze and painted". This listed medal is from the same auction as the previous example, Auction 19-20 April, 2017, session 3, Lot 3065. This lower resolution photograph appears to show the same medal as in the previous image (all casting flaws and wear appear identical between these 2 images, the fraying on the bottom of the rosette is identical), but the ribbon is folded differently. (https://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=3427&category=71803&lot=2844590) Obverse of a full-sized and miniature medals of the Orden del Liberator from a current eBay auction. It is identified as a "Grand Cross set", but is more likely a 2nd or 3rd Class award because it represents a neck collar. No additional information is provided. The ribbon on the miniature is obviously a replacement incorrectly yellow rather than the correct yellow, blue & red ribbon. (https://www.ebay.ca/itm/VENEZUELA-ORDER-OF-THE-LIBERATOR-SIMON-BOLIVAR-GRAND-CROSS-MEDAL-SET-Vinatge/132145758712?hash=item1ec48041f8:g:rkgAAOSwGIRXbrsv) Reverse of the same full-sized and miniature medals of the Orden del Liberator from eBay identified as a "Grand Cross set". (https://www.ebay.ca/itm/VENEZUELA-ORDER-OF-THE-LIBERATOR-SIMON-BOLIVAR-GRAND-CROSS-MEDAL-SET-Vinatge/132145758712?hash=item1ec48041f8:g:rkgAAOSwGIRXbrsv) Close-up image of the obverse of the same miniature Orden del Liberator miniature from a current eBay auction. (https://www.ebay.ca/itm/VENEZUELA-ORDER-OF-THE-LIBERATOR-SIMON-BOLIVAR-GRAND-CROSS-MEDAL-SET-Vinatge/132145758712?hash=item1ec48041f8:g:rkgAAOSwGIRXbrsv)
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