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Rusty Greaves

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About Rusty Greaves

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    rustygreaves@yahoo.com

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    Salt Lake City
  • Interests
    archaeology, anthropology, behavioral ecology, history, music, beer

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  1. Miniatures of the Middle East & Arab World

    Thanks for illustrating the reverse of the Khedive era miniatures and the the Republic awards. The reverse of the Order of Ismail miniature does show better the horizontal bar on the suspension element below the crown that is distinct from the examples I have illustrated on 6 December and yesterday. Are you excited by the return of commercial cinemas in the coming year?
  2. Miniatures of the Middle East & Arab World

    This is an illustration of the only other probably authentic miniature example I have found a photo of on the internet. Probable authentic miniature of the Order of Ismail, Class unknown. This example shows a different form of the attachment between the body of the badge and the Khedive crown for suspension from the first miniature I illustrated on 6 December. I enlarged the image of Owain's example in the miniature group shown above today, and that also appears to show a slight variation from this example in the configuration the crown support. Just trying to document some of the variations among authentic examples of the miniature for this order. Owain, is yours slightly different from this one and is there any maker's mark on your example? (https://www.flickr.com/photos/kelisli/3052094604)
  3. Miniatures of the Middle East & Arab World

    Owain, thanks for illustrating these miniatures. I am interested to see your example of the Order of Ismail with the Khedive crown showing a slightly variant form in its attachment to the body of the miniature badge than the example I illustrated at the top of my 6 December post. Is the dark spot on the ribbon wear/staining or do you think there may have been a device attached to identify the class of the Order for this miniature?
  4. Help with Egyptian Khedive medal

    I still hope that someone may have some information they are willing to pass along about Massonnet Edit, I'm also making some inquiries among some specifically numismatic information groups, but wanted to post a good images of the obverse & reverse of this image I recently came across. The photos probably have been edited with a graphics program, but it is a high-resolution image with good details of this medal. Image of the obverse & reverse of the Abbas Hilmi II table medal commemorating his coronation and return from the Hegaz. This image is from an auction listing of 12 October, 2015 through La Galerie Numismatique, lot 182. In the catalogue it is misidentified as "Fouad I King of Egypt and Sudan Medal for Sultan Hassan Hassan Mosque" c 1922. This site also identifies the lower left obverse inscription of "Massonnet Edit." The starting price (300 EUR) and realized price (600 EUR) for this medal seem low by comparison with other Abbas Hilmi II medals on website auction sites, this may partly be due to the mis-attribution of this medal and not realizing its possible value or scarcity. (https://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=2277&category=45886&lot=1928365). I have also recently found the eBay listing of one of these medals that I referred to on 25 March, 2017 archived through the Worthpont.com website (https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/egypt-gilded-bronze-medal-b29-115277729). The images of the obverse & reverse are low-resolution, but the eBay listing does also note the "Massonnet Edit" signature, identifying it as belonging to a "famous 19th century French engraver". The listing for the medal includes minimal information, the seller stated they did not know much about the medal, and the 22, July 2010 auction sale price reflects that - $76 (how I wish I had been doing this research in 2010!).
  5. Egyptian Khedive commemorative medal question

    I still hope that someone may have some information they are willing to pass along about Massonnet Edit, I'm also making some inquiries among some specifically numismatic information groups, but wanted to post a good images of the obverse & reverse of this image I recently came across. The photos probably have been edited with a graphics program, but it is a high-resolution image with good details of this medal. Image of the obverse & reverse of the Abbas Hilmi II table medal commemorating his coronation and return from the Hegaz. This image is from an auction listing of 12 October, 2015 through La Galerie Numismatique, lot 182. In the catalogue it is misidentified as "Fouad I King of Egypt and Sudan Medal for Sultan Hassan Hassan Mosque" c 1922. This site also identifies the lower left obverse inscription of "Massonnet Edit." The starting price (300 EUR) and realized price (600 EUR) for this medal seem low by comparison with other Abbas Hilmi II medals on website auction sites, this may partly be due to the mis-attribution of this medal and not realizing its possible value or scarcity. (https://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=2277&category=45886&lot=1928365). I have also recently found the eBay listing of one of these medals that I referred to on 25 March, 2017 archived through the Worthpont.com website (https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/egypt-gilded-bronze-medal-b29-115277729). The images of the obverse & reverse are low-resolution, but the eBay listing does also note the "Massonnet Edit" signature, identifying it as belonging to a "famous 19th century French engraver". The listing for the medal includes minimal information, the seller stated they did not know much about the medal, and the 22, July 2010 auction sale price reflects that - $76 (how I wish I had been doing this research in 2010!).
  6. Question about the Order of Ismail/Nishan al-Ismail

    I have found a couple of good quality images of the 4th Class (Officer) award for this Order while rummaging on my computer to try and locate dimensions for this badge. The breast badge is suspended on a ribbon with a rosette and is worn on the left side. This form of the badge is smaller than the breast badges of the 1st and 2nd class versions of this award. The description from this auction site identifies the badge's dimensions as 74 mm tall x 55 mm wide. The only examples of possible lapel insignia that I have found are for this class of the order of Ismail. Rosettes without ribbons are occasionally identified or illustrated in some sources for the Officer class of the Order of Ismail. I have inadvertently made a few errors on captions of previous images of this award class. On 13 November I identified the 4th class award as a chest badge on a ribbon with a rosette in text above the image, but my caption below the photo from Flickr called it a neck badge. Oops. On 15 November in my description of this badge I identified it as the 3rd Class and did the same for the caption of another image of this badge from Flickr in its presentation case from Tewfiq Bichay. Didn't catch those until my editing window time was done. Have been holding off on corrections until I could provide additional info on the Officer's badge and better images. Image of the Officer (4th Class) breast badge of the Order of Ismail made by Lattes, dimensions are 74 mm X 55 mm (https://www.coins-la-galerie-numismatique.com/auction-xxix/order-ismail) Close-up image of the Officer (4th Class) breast badge of the Order of Ismail showing good detail of the Khedive crown and the other suspension elements for attachment to the ribbon (https://www.coins-la-galerie-numismatique.com/auction-xxix/order-ismail)
  7. Dear Helen, Great to see someone from the Pitt-Rivers Museum on GMIC! I'm and anthropologist with research affiliations with the Peabody Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology at Harvard University and a Consulting Scholar with the American Section of the University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology. I have a collection of 1,311 very well documented artifacts that I've donated to the UPENN museum from my 30 months of fieldwork among Pumé hunters and gatherers of the savannas of Venezuela. I'm getting another few hundred ready for an additional donation this coming year. A fun range of everyday material culture, not necessarily of interest to most GMIC members. I've attached a popular article, unfortunately with low-resolution images, for your amusement. Best regards, Rusty

    Greaves_2007_Exped.pdf

  8. Question about the Order of Ismail/Nishan al-Ismail

    Well, lot 140 is a chimera with an Ethiopian crown & cross, some arm elements to the star reminiscent of the Order of Ismail and possible borders more similar to what you have illustrated, and a lot of magical unrealism thrown in.
  9. Miniatures of the Middle East & Arab World

    I have posted some of my limited information on miniatures of the Egyptian Order of Ismail on my other thread about this order, and apologize for duplicating that information here. However, this information follows the topic of Owain's post and may find more parties interested in miniatures more readily on this thread. Below are images and the information I've come across on possible miniatures for this order. Probable authentic miniature order of Ismail, 30 x 20 mm, identified on the La Galerie Numismatique website as as "Knight's Cross" which should probably be the Officers' breast badge if it is the 4th Class. However, without the correct ribbon identification devices for the class that Owain mentions, it may not be possible to identify these miniatures to the class they belonged. I have seen 2 other images of this miniature on auction sites and one on Picssr that is part of a private collection. Note that all other images of this miniature I have seen have the Khedive crown for suspension-the example below from the Spink & Son December 4 auction resembles the workmanship and abbreviated design elements of this example, but lacks this Khedive crown. This is the only form of the miniature I have seen with "accurate" details of the insignia. (https://www.coins-la-galerie-numismatique.com/auction-33/order-ismail-1) Possible authentic miniatures of the Order of Ismail, Class unknown. The badge on the R resembles the miniature badge above from La Galerie Numismatique and other lower resolution photos I have seen of this miniature (except for the lack of the Khedive crown for suspension present on all other similar miniatures). I have never seen other images of the star (L) before. If I understand correctly, Owain commented in my thread on the Order of Ismail on 5 December that such pairs might be unusual (suspect?) as only the badge is normally the insignia for the miniature. The badge form similar to the image on the R (also see full-sized award examples below) is used for all classes of the Order of Ismail insignia except the Commander (3rd Class) that only uses the neck badge with the star "resembling" the miniature on the L (again see the full-sized award example below). Could the star be the miniature for the 3rd Class award? Or is that in contradiction with Owain's knowledge that a single insignia is used for all miniatures with ribbon device distinctions to identify the class of orders? The workmanship and design elements of the star are much less correct than those of the badge. The star has proportion problems compared to the authentic larger sash (Grand Cordon, 1st Class) or neck badges (Grand Officer and Commander, 2nd & 3rd Classes) of this configuration (star too small & crown too large), and very poor workmanship shown in the enamel of the star's rays, no enamel coloring of the wreath around the central boss, a "gold" center with incorrect enamel distribution, an awkwardly rendered cipher, and no enamel colors on the crown, etc. Star with crown = 20 mm; The badge measures = 13 mm x 22mm. Materials identified for both as silver gilt and enamel. No manufacturer identified. Lot 267 of Spink & Son auction of 4 December, 2017. Manufacturer unknown. (ttps://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/auction-catalogues/spink/catalogue-id-srspi10156/lot-bb1a7884-22e6-4504-97db-a83200bb0ca9) Alleged miniature of the Order of Ismail. Extremely incorrect configuration. This example also violates Owain's position that a single insignia normally represents the miniature for an Order. Identified as silver-gilt, stamped, with cabochon in center (instead of enameled boss bearing the inscription "ISMAIL"). The reverse is stamped with the silver grades as "925". 25 mm including the crown suspension X 16 mm. No manufacturer identified. Lot 140 of an auction by Spink & Son, 4 December, 2017. (https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/auction-catalogues/spink/catalogue-id-srspi10156/lot-bd1c4e4c-7dc1-4560-a3c7-a83200ba36e7) Alleged miniature star (although not described as such on the website) identified as the 3rd Class Commander of the Order of Ismail. As noted for the first & second images, without the ribbon designation it is problematic to determine a class for this possible miniature. The ribbon also appears problematic for a miniature. There are several differences in the design of this star compared with full-sized authentic pieces. The same comment about whether the miniature badge would be one insignia (the form of the badge seen in the first photo here) mentioned before is relevant here. No dimensions provided, no information on any maker's mark, ribbon is identified as "original". This image is from a website that has these medals "in stock" and is pricing them at 1,500€ (https://www.falera-et-orbis.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=345) Inexpensive alleged miniature of the Order of Ismail available on eBay. Materials identified as copper, brass, gilt. size not identified, date of manufacture is 2015. No markings on the reverse. Price range identified between $22-$26, from Ukraine. Surprisingly better details than some other more expensive online offerings, but was a star ever the insignia of the miniature for this Order? (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Miniature-for-Order-of-Ismail-Kingdom-of-Egypt/302536806062?hash=item4670994eae:g:LUsAAOSwVCRZdMBd) For comparison with the miniatures above, this is the full-sized insignia of the Grand Officer (2nd Class) of the Order of Ismail showing the 2 insignia used for each of the four classes of this Order. The star above is the neck badge worn on a ribbon, the chest badge below is worn on the right side. For the 1st Class (Grand Cordon) the star is attached to the decorative bow on the sash and the chest badge is worn on the left. The insignia for the 3rd Class (Commander) is the smaller star worn as a neck badge. The 4th Class (Officer) badge resembles the lower badge in the above photo and is suspended on a ribbon with a rosette using the same Khedive crown ornament as seen on the smaller star, and is worn on the left side. The Officer's badge is smaller than other versions of the insignia, but I have not yet found its dimensions. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/kelisli/8844318688)
  10. Question about the Order of Ismail/Nishan al-Ismail

    Attached is a beautiful image of the Grand Cordon (1st Class) of the Order of Ismail. This is the only photo I have come across that shows the sash folded in what may be approximately its proper configuration in the presentation case (see the image of the unfolded sash from eMedals that I posted in this thread on November 13), although I am not completely certain of this. Grand Cordon (1st Class) of the Order of Ismail. This photo shows what is likely the correct configuration of the sash in the presentation case, breast badge (above) and star badge (below) suspended from the decorative bow. This example is identified as being in its presentation case, although I am unsure whether this photo was taken with it in that case. The auction site identifies it incorrectly as the "Knight's Grand Cross". The manufacturer is J. Lattes, the height of the star suspended for the bow is 62 mm (including the crown) x 80 mm wide (eMedals, JOMSA vol 57, No 4, 2006, and other sources identify it as 82 mm wide), the chest badge is 80 mm in diameter (eMedals, the same JOMSA article, and other sources identify it as 84 mm). The length of the sash is not identified, but eMedals states that the sash is 100 mm in width with two 9 mm-wide edge stripe inset 2 mm from each edge. This example shows a "third" red strip on the R side because the other loop of the sash is showing from below. This comes from Lot 28 of an auction on 4 December, 2017 by Spink & Son with an expected sale price of 2500-3000 GBP. (https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/auction-catalogues/spink/catalogue-id-srspi10156/lot-3b07acb4-542f-4733-93a3-a83200b99892)
  11. Question about the Order of Ismail/Nishan al-Ismail

    Many thanks to 922F and Owain for your information about miniatures. I am quite grateful for 922F's statement about ELM, I had heard that the Order of Ismail was occasionally still being awarded in exile (although the government's sponsorship of the Order ended in 1952 after the Revolution). In response I would like to attach images of all the miniatures I have run across in the last few months. Some are faithful to the award's design, others much less so. I am very interested in comments by the interested and knowledgable GMIC members on these forms of miniatures. Probable authentic miniatures of the Order of Ismail, Class unknown. This resembles the miniature badge I illustrated above on 5 December. I have seen a photo of one other such badge that is part of a private collection. I have never seen other images of the star before. Star with crown = 20 mm; badge = 13 mm x 22mm, Material identified as silver gilt and enamel. No manufacturer identified. Lot 267 of Spink & Son auction of 4 December, 2017. Manufacturer unknown. (ttps://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/auction-catalogues/spink/catalogue-id-srspi10156/lot-bb1a7884-22e6-4504-97db-a83200bb0ca9) Alleged miniature of the Order of Ismail. Extremely incorrect configuration. Identified as silver-gilt, stamped, with cabochon in center (instead of enameled boss bearing the inscription "ISMAIL"). The reverse is stamped with the silver grades as "925". 25 mm including the crown suspension X 16 mm. No manufacturer identified. Lot 140 of an auction by Spink & Son, 4 December, 2017. (https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/auction-catalogues/spink/catalogue-id-srspi10156/lot-bd1c4e4c-7dc1-4560-a3c7-a83200ba36e7) Alleged miniature star (although not described as such on the website) identified as the 3rd Class Commander of the Order of Ismail. There are several differences in the design of this star compared with full sized authentic pieces. No dimensions provided, no information on any maker's mark, ribbon is identified as "original". This image is from a website that has these medals "in stock" and is pricing them at 1,500€ (https://www.falera-et-orbis.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=345) Inexpensive alleged miniature of the Order of Ismail available on eBay. Materials identified as copper, brass, gilt. size not identified, date of manufacture is 2015. No markings on the reverse. Price range identified between $22-$26, from Ukraine. (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Miniature-for-Order-of-Ismail-Kingdom-of-Egypt/302536806062?hash=item4670994eae:g:LUsAAOSwVCRZdMBd)
  12. Egypt Khedivate Judge's Badge question

    Attached is a high resolution image of the recently advertised judges' badge from the Spink & Son auction of 4 December, 2017. This image has excellent detail of the design elements of this badge (note especially the detail of the cipher (?) on the tughra at the inferior portion of the drapery. High resolution image of an Egyptian judges badge for either the Mixed Courts or Native Courts on Spink & Son auction of 4 December, 2017. 116 X 85 mm, silver gilt, pawnbroker's mark on reverse. it is unclear if this is a silver gilt badge or a worn example of one of the gold gilt badges. The distribution of the gold on the photo could be tarnish or worn gold gilt aspects of the design. An individual from the medal dept. of Spink & Son stated there is probably traces of silver gilt on the reverse of the badge, but did not confirm whether any gold gilt is visible on the obverse. Expected price was between 1000-2000 GBP. (https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/auction-catalogues/spink/catalogue-id-srspi10156/lot-63685e70-7557-48b1-aabf-a83200b99d8c)
  13. Miniatures of the Middle East & Arab World

    Owain, Many thanks for responding to my inquiry with this post. This is another fascinating facet to learning about these awards and medals. Your expertise is greatly appreciated in helping my inquiries about the Order of Ismail and the Mixed Courts/Native Courts judges badges, and making this such an interesting website for research on a broad array of awards. Rusty
  14. Egyptian Khedive commemorative medal question

    I apologize for my profound phaleristics ignorance, but I do not know what the specific role of a medal editeur is. Can someone please explain to me what role Massonnet Edit. is likely to have played in designing this medal, and how that is articulated into the manufacture of this medal by Tewfik Bichay? I have other information that indicated Bichay did produce this commemorative medal. I have had poor luck on any internet searches about Massonnet Edit, and do not have access to a good phalereistics library at the moment.
  15. Help with Egyptian Khedive medal

    I apologize for my profound phaleristics ignorance, but I do not know what the specific role of a medal editeur is. Can someone please explain to me what role Massonnet Edit. is likely to have played in designing this medal, and how that is articulated into the manufacture of this medal by Tewfik Bichay? I have had poor luck on any internet searches about Massonnet Edit, and do not have access to a good phalereistics library at the moment.
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