camelneck

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  1. I had another discussion with the jeweler. He thinks he can use a soldering iron and some gold solder to reattach the loop to the medal.
  2. Thanks for the information, Dave. About 2 months ago, I compared photos of a Hessen and a Prussian 12yr Long Service Medal and I was able to notice some very slight differences in the crown. However, the differences were so slight, that I thought it might be due to different manufacturers or even wear and tear. About 2 weeks ago I compared photos of a Hessen 9yr and a Prussian 9yr and I couldn't tell any differences in the crown. But maybe, the Hessen medal was actually a Prussian medal on the wrong ribbon or vice versa. According to the website Ehrenzeichen Orden, there were 3 different versions of the Prussian 15 yr cross based upon their composition: 1) copper (perhaps they meant gold-plated copper), 2) gold-plated white metal (Weißmetall vergoldet), and 3) tombac bronze. This explains why many of the Prussian 15 yr LS crosses have a reddish (copper/bronze) appearance and why others have a golden appearance. (Both of mine are made are made of gold-plated white metal and they can be scratched very easily.) As of last night, this thread has taken on new meaning. The ribbon loop on one of my 12-yr Prussian medals broke off from the medal. I decided to take it to a jeweler and see if he could reattach it. Although all of the information I can find regarding the Prussian 12-yr medals says it is made of bronze, the jeweler thinks that the broken medal is only bronze-plated. If it is pure bronze he can fix it. If it is a bronze-plating, he is afraid the heat will damage the plating.. Thus, I'm in a bit of a dilemma. If it wasn't a piece of history I'd just tell him to put the torch to it and see what happens. Does anybody have any advice or possibly some other ideas on how it might be fixed? s if there are bronze-plated 12 yr medals please let me know..
  3. Thanks UpChuck, As I said before, I searched fairly regularly for about a year with no luck, then within a period of 2 weeks, I had both of them. Maybe lady luck will shine on you next.
  4. This is one of the most complete and informative threads that I have seen in some time. I wanted to send a special thanks to Carol I and 922F for all of the wonderful information that they provided, as well as Alex K for the great question. I'm also grateful for the info regarding why the bravery ribbon was sometimes used. I have a screen capture of a Bulgarian Ribbon Photo Gallery that I made from a webpage off the Internet, which showed both the Bravery Ribbon and the black-wh-yellow ribbon as valid ribbons for the Order of Military Merit during the Kingdom of Bulgaria era. There was a footnote stating that the bravery medal could only be awarded to classes 4 thru 6, but it didn't provide an explanation. I now see why I've only seen it on the 6th class silver crosses. I currently have an Officer's Class Order of Military Merit with crown, swords, original case, and ribbon rosette. I also have gold and silver Bulgarian Soldier's Crosses for Bravery. A 4th class bravery medal (or better) is on my future shopping list.
  5. Thanks, Claudius. Once I have the Waldeck medal I'll have all my EK2 Equivalents for enlisted men. In addition to wartime merit and bravery awards, which are my favorite, I've also started expanding my Long Service (Military Dienstauszeichnung) collection. I had originally stopped at 9,12,15, & 25yr for Prussia and 9,12,15,& 24yr for Bavaria. But I recently added 10 more medals: the 9,12, & 15yr for Hesse (Prussia on another ribbon), 9,12, & 15yr for Wurttemberg, 9, 12, & 15yr for Baden. and 9yr for Saxony. I just need the 12yr & 15yr Saxony awards to complete all those. Other long service awards, such as Saxe-Weimar and Mecklenburg, are much more difficult to find, but I'm sure I'll eventually start on those. :). I like to go for the easy ones first! David
  6. I had been looking for a Saxe Meiningen KVK for almost a year and had no luck. Then last month I bought the zinc one (pictured in earlier posts) from ebay Germany. I still had hopes of some day finding a nice bronze S-M KVK. I hadn't had my zinc cross for 2 weeks, and this morning, I stumbled on a nice bronze one on USA ebay with only about 4 hours left to go in the auction.. Can you believe I searched for over a year with no luck at all and then I find 2 of them within 2 weeks?. Although this happened a whole lot sooner than I ever thought, I decided to enter a last minute bid on this auction. Well, I got lucky again and won this auction with a 10 cent margin! So I now have a nice bronze SM KVK to go along with my zinc one. ::) (I also have the bronze medal version of this award.) Now I'm going to focus all of my effort on a silver Waldeck Merit Medal with swords! Here is a couple of photos of the latest conquest courtesy of ebay. I hope to have it in 2 to 3 weeks.
  7. Hi Claudius, Thanks for the nice comments. Below is a photo of the reverse side, which I like even better than the front. As far as ribbons go, I currently have 2 combatant's style ribbons on order. One is approximately 36mm wide and the other is only 30mm wide. (BTW, this is one of my favorite ribbons. I really like the color scheme.) I agree with you. The addition of a ribbon will definitely add some much needed color to this award. I also have the SM Honor Medal for Merit in War, which is the enlisted man's version of the SMK. (It is already on a combatant's ribbon.) My SMHM is made of bronze. IMO, the early bronze medals are more attractive than the zinc ones. (I once saw a black SMHM for sale and it was supposedly made of iron.) One of these days I would love to find a nice specimen of the SMK in bronze. However, if I do find one in bronze, I still plan to hold onto this zinc SMK since the zinc ones are more scarce. Cheers, David
  8. Did anybody ever give an official answer to Alan's original question?? Other than matching the medal with a different colored ribbon, did Hesse and Prussia use the exact same medals for the 9yr, 12yr, and 15yr Long Service Awards. I've compared photos of Hesse and Prussian Long Service Awards and I can't seem to tell a difference between them.
  9. Pete, This is a fantastic looking bar and all the medals appear to be in excellent condition. The fact that it has the Iron Crescent and a S-M cross on a non-combatant's ribbon makes it very rare and possibly one-of-a-kind. I usually find Turkish medals to be rather plain and ugly, but the red crescent on the white enamel really makes this medal really come to life. Your Saxe-Meiningen Cross appears to be in great shape. Even the pure zinc version of this cross looks wonderful. This is good news for me, because my mailman currently has a zinc SM Cross for Merit In War in his truck! It should arrive at my door in about 4 hours! Here is a pic of my cross.
  10. I just bought one of these medals on ebay for $150. The seller listed it as a "silver medal with swords". It is in NEF or better condition so I'm really happy with the purchase. However, as soon as I opened the package, I immediately thought that this might be a gold medal because most of the photos that I've seen of the so-called golden medals only seem to have a small amount of the original gilding left. In fact, I thought about posting a photo, but my medal looks almost identical to the medal in the photo that JensF. has posted above. If it is a gold medal, most of the gilding has worn off. On the other hand, I wonder if tarnish could give this medal a slightly golden look. If only 640 gold medals were issued as opposed to 6,000+ silver medals, then I'm sure the gold medals are worth a lot more money than the silver ones (especially since I have a gold one with swords). Sincerely, David Collins
  11. I've been trying to determine exactly how many of the silver medal with swords were issued. 1) Does the number 6034 apply to those with swords or does it apply to all of the silver medals? It was my understanding that the swords were only issued during wartime. 2) Can you also clarify that the 6034 applies to the life of the award (1851 - 1927) and not just during WW1 (1914 - 1918) or WW1 and after (1914 - 1927)? Thanks.
  12. Thanks for the info Chuck and Deruelle. This was a huge help and I really appreciate it! Chuck, do you have all 7 volumes of "Aviation Awards of Imperial Germany" or just volumes 5 thru 7? If so, what are your favorite volumes? I would love to have this series of books, but I've heard the early volumes cost a fortune. I was thinking about picking up volume #7 while it is still affordable. New hardcover ones are still available for $60 and used ones in good condition (but paperback) are about $40. I noticed a discrepancy on the Mecklenburg-Schwerin (MVK) awards. According to the above information, O'Connors book says 17,615 were awarded during WW1, while Voll's book claims the number was 74,875. At first, I thought Voll might have been including the total number of awards produced throughout the life of the medal, which was from 1848 thru 1929. (The Mecklenburg-Schwerin award was awarded in several wars, 1848, 1864, 1866, 1870, and WW1, but that would mean that approximately 75% of the 74,875 MVK's were awarded outside of WW1 and only about 25% were awarded during WW1. IMO, the gap shouldn't be that large. On the other hand, if O'Connor's figure of 17,615 is correct for WW1, this would mean that more Lippe-Detmold War Merit Crosses (18,374 to 19,374) were awarded. I'm aware of at least 7 German WW2 Field Marshalls that had been awarded the Mecklenburg-Schwerin Military Merit Cross, while only 3 WW2 Field Marshalls had been awarded the Lippe War Merit Cross. Coincidence? Or were most of the Field Marshalls like Goring, who preferred the nicer looking awards. :) The Meck-Schwerin MVK is a very attractive medal! :). I ran into a similar problem when researching the Prussian EK2. Evidently, the Prussian records were destroyed during WW2 and the estimates out there seem to vary considerably. Some historians claim as many as 6,000,000 EK2's were issued during WW1 and other historians claim that the number is closer to 4,000,000. This is one reason why I chose the 5,196,000 estimate since it is in the middle. Thanks again for your help.
  13. After a fortuitous weekend, I just need 1 medal to complete my collection of EK2 equivalents for the enlisted men, which consists of 24 medals. I'm also in the process of collecting information about each of these awards, and this information includes "how many of each of these medals were awarded during WW1". So far I have "number awarded" information for just over half (13) of these 24 medals. (On medals with more than 1 class, I'm also collecting info on all 3 classes (not just the class for the enlisted man)). My Questions: 1) Does anybody know how many Mecklenburg-Schwerin Military Merit Crosses (2nd class) were awarded during WW1? 2) Does anybody know how many Brunswick War Merit Crosses (1st and/or 2nd class) were awarded during WW1? 3) I also need similar "number awarded info" on these 9 EK2 medals: 1) Anhalt Friedrich Cross; 2) Baden Silver Merit Medal; 3) Schwartzburg Silver Medal for Merit in War; 4) Hohenzollern Silver Merit Medal with swords (gold also); 5) Saxony Bronze Friedrich-August (silver also); 6) Saxe-Coburg-Gotha Silver Merit Medal with sword-clasp (Gold also); 7) Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach Bronze General Honor Decoration with sword clasp (silver also); 8) Reuss Silver Merit Medal with swords, and 9) Wurttemberg Silver Military Merit Medal. If anybody can help me out with any of these medals I would really appreciate it. Here is info that I have collected on 13 of the 24 EK2 equivalents. Feel free to add to this list. Once I receive info on the 11 EK2 Equivalents listed below (10 + Meck-Schwerin) I will definitely share the completed list with this forum, 1) Lippe-Detmold War Merit Cross 2nd class: combatant version (18,000); non-combatant version (1,100) 2) Oldenburg Friedrich-August Cross 1st class (6,900) from 1914-1919; 2nd class (62,800) 3) Mecklenburg-Strelitz Cross for Distinction in War 1st class (419); 2nd class (8,131) 4) Bavarian Military Merit Cross (MVK); 3rd class w/ swords (290,000); 3rd class w/ swords & crown (73,000) (17,976 1st and 2nd classes, but need breakdowns) 5) Waldeck Silver Merit Medal w/ swords (1,218) 6) Saxe-Meiningen Cross for Merit In War (4,653); Medal for Merit In War (24,038) 7) Saxe-Altenburg Bravery Medal (15,000) 8) Hanseatic Cross Hamburg (50,000) 9) Hanseatic Cross Bremen (20,000) 10) Hanseatic Cross Luebeck (8,000 to 10,000) 11) Hesse General Honor Decoration (estimated at 150,000 for all types not just tapferkeit) (records destroyed during war) 12) Schaumburg-Lippe Cross for Loyal Service (10,397) 13) Prussia EK1 (218,000); EK2 for combatants (5,196,000); EK2 for non-combatants (13,000) (remember these are for WW1) .
  14. Thanks for the info Megan. This was very helpful and I really appreciate it. Having a life of 3 years or less and with only 147 awarded, I can see why this award is so obscure.
  15. I recently ran across a photo of a replica of "The Hessen Order of the Iron Helmet" (Orden vom Eisernem Helm) and I was intrigued. However, I've scoured the Internet and can find very little information about this cross other than the following tidbits (see below). I was hoping someone could provide some additional information about this award including 1) what was it awarded for (bravery, merit, service, etc.), 2) when was it last awarded (Franco-Prussian War, WW1, etc.), and 3) when was the 2nd version of this order first awarded. Here are the tidbits that I found. (This exact same information appears on nearly every website I found.) >>It was established on 18 March 1814 by Elector Wilhelm I of Hesse-Kassel (or Hesse-Cassel). Maximilian Gritzner describes the model and the statutes of the order as "influenced by the example of the Iron Cross". There were two versions of this award: 1st version had a knight's helmet-type device attached to a two-tone silver cross bottony (trefoil) while 2nd version had same device but this time it was attached to a silver cross cross pattée instead of a cross bottony." Special thanks to anyone that can help me out. I really appreciate it.