Veljko

Hello paja, everyone, just now on serbian auction is published another one, here is the link https://www.limundo.com/kupovina/Kolekcionarstvo/Ordenje-i-plakete/YU-SFRJ-i-Srbija/Belogardejska-oznaka-RR/70323361 Seller of course states that is original, but as i checked on several russian forums obviousely this is newly made copy, known as Belgrade copy. I think that this copy is coming from the same kitchen where serbian and kingdom of yugoslavia cockades are made

Neither montenegrin regulations. But in this case maybe parallel should be made to miniatures, they were not officially regulated but they were used. But in this case i dont have any idea or info still.

Hi Paja , yes that was on our serbian militaria forum, actually Stojan posted it and we discussed, he acquired emblem of Danilo Ist and Karageorge star from one source , bought from collectioner, very reputable one and emblem of White eagle with swords was acquired as new one - new production. Our Danilo stars are produced on the same way, also one Montenegrin collectioner has the same Danilo emblem. But all of us we dont know the source where they came from, period of production etc. So i guessed maybe someone here on gmic could help us, best

Dear colleagues, i recently acquired this emblem of the star of the order of Danilo I of Montenegro. I don’t have any info on such type of emblems that were produced for Montenegro. In Europe such emblems of orders were produced untill beginning of 19th century, not later. Order of Danilo was established in second part of the 19th century. Thx for info!

Here is photo all the others have uniforms from 1880’s Great one, thx for posting it, this combination of Serbian Obrenovic era decorations with montenegrin decorations is the most beautifull thing!

Officer on the photo is captain Mihajlo Radulovic. He started as volounteer in Hercegovina upraisal 1874-75. When Serbia entered into war he joined General Chernayeff troops. In Djunis battle he command with flying battalion (командант летећег батаљона), he act very bravely in battle and fiercly and heroically attacked Turks. For his heroism in wars1874-1878 with Turks, he received many Serbian and Montenegrin medals, especially ones for heroism. I dont see well medals on the bar but i will try : Position 5 dont have idea on position 6 is Montenegrin Obilic, position 7 montenegrin silver heroism position 8 St Andrew assembly position 9 military virtues position 10 very nice and unusual- montenegrin commemorative medal 1875-78 position 11 serbian commemorative medal 1876-78 position 12 commemorative medal serbian bulgarian war 85-8 Thx Dragomir!

Pls look at this photo, very interesting and similar bar from the same period. Pls take closer look on postions 2,3,4. It looks me like on postion 2 is takovo cross V, and than most interesting thing is coming, two medals which are the same, I would say on positions 3 and 4 are two golden bravery medals 1877!!! I never saw smthg like this. Very similar bar also with serbian and montenegrin medals.

Well on the first photo the medal is obviousely rounded and i also agree that its the same medal. That means that this one is not St Andrew's assembley. Than it must be silver bravery medal, since the diameter of the medal is smaller. Cheers

One more thing Paja, just now came to my mind. If its silver bravery medal than the ribbon has to be in the serbian flag colours, red, blue, white. The ribon of the medal no.7 doesnt looks like that. It looks me lighter , and since this is black and white photo most probably is light blue whith one thin stripe ie could be thin red stripe. If this is the case than it is St Andrew's assembly. what do you think about ribbon?

You are right Paja, its most logical arround 1897. I mentioned St Andrew's medal because the medal on the photo looks me octagonal, not rounded. For silver bravery medal should be smaller, and regarding size it could be, obviosely its smaller than commemorative medal of Serbian Turkish wars 76-78. But still it looks me octagonal when i larger the photo. In case that it is medal of St Andrew's assembly than the year of the photo was made could be only 1898

Hi Igor, But however here is version with two montenegrin bravery medals. This is also absolutely correct and possible option for this bar, Serbian silver bravery from serbian turkish and Serbian Bulgarian war and Montenegrin medal for courage 1862 (silver other you mentioned) have the same ribbon red-blue-white. But also i talked to some of our fellow collectors and thaey have the opinion that montenegrin medal for courage 1862 is going with red-white montenegrin ribbon and was never awarded with red-blue-white ribbon. The regular montenegrin silver medal was awarded with red -blue-white one until begginig of 20th century when this was changed and this one startes to be awarded with white-red montenegrin ribbon. cheers

Hi Igor, i tried allready, i know this bar frim the Belgrade Museum, but this one is the only one with such combination awarded to Serbian officer. Somehow i think that combination of Montenegrin silver bravery medal and Serbian silver bravery medal 1885-1886 would be more common. Thx for the advice!

Hi Paja, thx a lot for great photo of General Franasovic, i agree with you, this photo is from the period after 1897, on position 7 i think that he is wearing commemorative medal of 40 yrs of St. Andrews assembly.But if its medal od 40 yrs of St Andrews assembly, i think that he would wear also Order of Milos the Great. I think that he was awarded with Order of Milos the Great 2nd class, but i dont know when he was awarded. Great finding, best, Veljko

Hi new world, no these are correct ribbons, for example for ref. pls check excerpt from Muhic-Car book, as their photos are in color. Maybe you were confused since Red Cross order from kingdom period has different ribbon - white one and Takovo Cross with swords, has different ribbon-the red one. But ordinary Takovo Cross (without swords) and Red Cross order (from principality) have the same ribbon, as shown on the bar and photos from the book.

And also related to this topic, here is awarding document for the royal household golden medal with crown Close look on the seal of the Marechalate of the court

And if i can contribute to the topic, this is an example of same medal manufactured by Arthus Berthrand. They were made from bronze and guilded, and the crown and letters are slightly different And here we can compare and see difference between GA Scheid and Arthus Bertrand, golden ones with crown and without are manufactured by Arthus Bertrand and both silver medals are manufactured by GA Scheid

D Hi i actually made some changes and i think that this is 99% how it looked originally. Unfortunatelly I'm still missing Takovo cross with swords 4th class

Ivan Kosancic is a historical person, medieval Serbian knight and nobleman who died in battle of Kosovo with Turks in 1389. He was from Gornje Toplice, Kosanica river area , near Kursumlija. He was son of Ognjen Kosancic, nobleman and knight from the personal guard of Emperor Dusan Silni. He was recognized as one of the best swordsman (mačevalac) in Serbian army of that time. He was very famous for his style, fighting with two swords at the same time , the long one and short sword.

Prince Nicholas had idea to order for manufacturing two types, golden medal and silvered , but it was too late when they ordered it from Vinc Meyer - just before planned celebration ( and celebration was planned for 19th Dec - St Nicholas day according to Serbian orthodox calendar). In addition order was incomplete - Prince Nicholas portrait was not sent tiimely which was corrected and sent immediately after request from Vinc Meyer. Than Vinc Meyer suggested to produce golden medal from guilded bronze and silver medal from silver with portrait model as received. This was accepted and result is, as we can see, design of medal as in photos attached, and golden medal was made from guilded bronze and silvered medal from silver.

It was manufactured only in two grades : golden - made from gilded bronze silver- made from silver Third type -only bronze, as mentioned in D Romanoff book, from which i attached excerpt ,doesn't existed, neither was planned or ordered for manufacturing. This was author's mistake.

Really rare medal, it was very reputable in Montenegro to receive this medal , among Montenegrins also known as "medal for long service" (medalja za dugogodisnje sluzbovanje). Designed by Szirmay and manufactured by Vinc Meyer. It was planned to order from manufacturer 100 gold ones and 400 silver ones. Correct number of received medals is not known. And one correction to the text attached, bronze medal doesnt existed, only golden and silver.

40 yrs of reign medal od Prince Nicholas, later King, silver and golden one

Hi Paja i am chasing to find General Franasovic longer bar than this one on a picture. But i can't, in the meantime did you find some new photo of Gen Franasovic with longer bar? cheers

Very interesting and actual topic Paja. I can add an opinion / gossip that majority of cockades of Kingdom of Serbia and Yugoslavia/SHS are newly produced in Zagreb, that some well known names and even bookwriters on military topics are involved. I am pretty much sure that you heard this story too. All those newly made cockades are excellently produced so it is allmost imposible to notice the difference between them and the old ones. I also saw same question and discussion on one other serbian militaria forum about this same cockade. I can add that one of the discutants there is a person involved in production and distribution of those new ones, as i heard.