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Gentleman's Military Interest Club

142bravo

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About 142bravo

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    Manitoba CANADA
  1. Thanks Gents for the information. Very interesting to see another example I wonder where this example is located (UK)? Thanks for finding it after doing so much leg work Simon as I came up with nothing at all in locating anything similar. With the heavy casualties in 1916 it is sure strange to not find others examples which may have been bought during or after the War. I wonder if it might have been more significant for purchase by the NOK of soldiers who were killed in 1916? Can't find any sort of maker information on the scroll - unlike the Canadian ones I have seen which seemed to have very small printing with the makers information on the bottom of the scroll or on the back. Even narrowing down the search for Bernard with any forename or initial J. who died in 1916 - nothing definitive that is a sure match. For French/Quebec Canadians commonly Jacques = Jack (in English) and so far I haven't found any Canadian Archives Attestation Papers for Jack Bernard and nothing shows up in other data base searches I've done. As Peter points out with the large post war industry in producing these certificates there would have been a great variety of examples one could purchase with various patriotic themes so a family wherever they lived could choose one that appealed to them. Even not as a Canadian themed scroll - the patriotic nature of this one would be very moving for a KIA 1916 soldier's family. It saddens me to think that such moving tributes to soldiers killed bravely serving their Nation in many cases don't remain and get passed down in the family or offered to museums for proper display. (I found one for sale under a stack of old text books covered in layers of thick dust in a second hand store assorted junk pile!) The search continues! Bruce
  2. Thanks Simon for the very interesting information you provided - very much appreciated.. What has me stumped and is different is that every example of a Canadian family/private purchase memorial scroll I have had or seen - always seemed to be infused with a heavy use of Canadian patriotic images ie. a Canadian flag crossed against the Union Jack - a Canadian beaver - caribou or some sort of distinct "Canadian content". Canadians in those days while very patriotic and loyal to the Crown were also extremely proud Canadians -and everything marketed for sale of a patriotic nature always seemed to display distinctly Canadian themes. When I first bought it from the UK I immediately felt it was a tribute to a fallen soldier recruited in England during the Kitchener Volunteers recruiting period - but as you say this might quite possibly be a CEF soldier! Doesn't seem to be a common type memorial scroll does it? Will sure pursue the Canadian aspect of it and keep you posted if I learn more. I've posted a few photos of a private family purchased memorial scroll to a local area soldier sadly KIA in 1916. Bruce
  3. Have any members ever seen one of these Lord Kitchener Memorial Scrolls before? It's the one I have seen and since owning it I have never been able to find out any information on it - I've always been curious to know more about it? It is period framed and is 14.5" x 10" in size and with a scroll reading: "In Memory of Lord Kitchener of Khartoum Soldier Statesman and Administrator" . On the bottom there is a blank area and written in old ink is the added wording and name of a soldier: "Also Of Jack Bernard" and underneath it reads: "Who answered the call of Lord Kitchener For His King & Country": I suspect that this was a memorial scroll privately purchased where families would record the name of their fallen loved one - maybe for a 1916 Kitchener Volunteer KIA? It is a very nicely done memorial tribute to a fallen soldier with a very impressive center picture of Lord Kitchener - there is no makes information anywhere on it at all. Does anyone have any information on this type of memorial scroll? Thanks! Bruce
  4. Thanks for checking Simon: I looked more closely at the National Archives documents I found on one photocopied page of poor quality and very hard to (of course!) document with entries on his character and ships he served on etc. - but on the last line an entry which reads: " ??? for medal 13th March 18?8." Too bad it is so illegible but I wonder if it might be 1888 as the requirement for the medal was at least 18 years of unblemished service and as he enlisted in 1868 it would fit but that is only a guess as it is impossible to sort out what the entry is. Bruce
  5. Thanks Simon for really pointing me in the right direction as the National Archives did have some good information on William Drover. He had a stellar record of service in the Royal Navy enlisting in 1868 and attaining the rank of C.P..O before going to pension in 1889. He served on a number of ships of the line: HMS Revenge - Victor Emanuel - Thalia - Hornet - Alexandra - Duke of Wellington and HMS EXCELLENT a number of times in his career. Wish I was better at the Navy terms in the archives but I think that I have been able to decipher most of what was recorded. I couldn't find any reference to the award date for his medal in the National Archives material - I see that the Medal entitlement records are accessed through Ancestry.com (which I don't subscribe to) might there be a separate source for this information? I am very honored to have this outstanding sailors medal in my Victorian militaria collection and hope that I can go further in this research if anyone has an idea of a good next step or any information to offer I would certainly be most grateful.
  6. Thank you Peter and Simon for the information much appreciated and I have a direction to go in regarding research. Of course there are a few William Driver's in the National Archives with dates of birth that would fit and the records are referenced according by serial number. With the naming of the medal only having the name and appointed title of C.M. Top but no serial number I wonder how I can match my William Driver to the 3 possible ones. Might anyone know if there is a ships roster of H.M.S. Excellent that provide William Drover's serial number for research? Thanks again gentleman! Bruce
  7. I am hoping members may help me find out any information on a Victorian Royal Navy Good Conduct Long Service medal named to a sailor on the H.M.S. Excellent. It is properly impressed named: Wm. DROVER 2nd C.M. Top H.M.S. Excellent I believe that this position refers to the 2nd Captain of the Main Mizzen Top? My questions are: - What would be the best way to research Wm Drover (I'd be most interest in researching him) - I don't know have his actual rank or serial nos. Were the Victorian era medals of this type named in this manner without rank or nos. and is this a common title C.M. Top to have named on a medal? - Any idea of it's age without having done research on the sailor? I think this is the second version of this medal? - I understand HMS Excellent was a stone frigate in later years and a very tough installation to graduate from. Would this medal be from when the ship was an actual sea ship vs. a ground facility? - Any comments on the medal - rank - or ship? - Are these relatively common medals or might there be some value to it with/without the wearers research? While it doesn't have it's original ribbon - it has great age patina and no cleaning - no damage or serious condition issues (save for a bend to the top suspension bar) - I must say (only owning 2 other medals in my Victorian military collection KSA/QSA.pair) that the quality of this Royal Navy medal is very nice indeed! I would sure appreciate any information on the medal and in doing research on Wm. Drover - I have no experience or knowledge in medal collecting!
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