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    laurentius

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    Everything posted by laurentius

    1. It is an original gold piece by the Dutch company Becht & Elbers. I have the same. Made between 1865 and 1891.
    2. It seems the Ebay-fakes have permeated to the dealers https://www.weitze.net/militaria/38/Anhalt_Erinnerungszeichen_an_den_90_Geburtstag_der_Herzogin_Witwe_Frederike_zu_Anhalt_Bernburg__442538.html
    3. That is always allowed, but if one scrolls through the list of recipients there are a couple of names I would not credit with bravery like Paul von Hindenburg or Crownprince Rupprecht. As one descends from the grand crosses down to the lower grades the amount of bravery awards increases and military merit awards goes down.
    4. Dear fellow collectors, The city Archive of Wetzlar has written back to me. They said that Göbel lived in Wetzlar from 01.01.1906 and that he moved to Bad Homburg on the 23nd of may 1910. This probably coincides with his promotion. Prior to living in Wetzlar Göbel lived in Betzdorf. He probably got it after 1909, since it isn't lised yet in the Ordensalmnach that Uwe mentioned. I consider it possibly that he got it after 1918, although I would find that unlikely. At this moment we will have to wait, I have also written to the archives of the cities of Hungen, Bad Homburg and Hagenau. Kind regards, Laurentius
    5. Hello Uwe, Thank you for your reply, I didn't know Göbel had two decorations in 1909. I was aware of his Phillipsorden but I didn't know he had a long service decoration for working in the Hessian railways. That gives us an idea regarding his age. He must have entered service around 1884 or earlier. He was therefore probably born around 1860. Unless 'Hungen, Hess, 2. 8. 51.) is his date of birth. We know he got his House Order of Orange in 1913 and it was only around 1918 that he received the RAO4 and the Prussian verdienstkreuz für Kriegshilfe. I still don't know when he got his Bulgarian Civil Merit Order, but since it is a King Ferdinand issue it would have been between 1908 and 1918. Kind regards, Laurentius
    6. I checked and it is indeed a king Ferdinand issue from between 1908 and 1918. Here are the pictures. Kind regards, Laurentius
    7. Hello Graf, Thank you for your reply, I bought this medalbar a few days ago and it's coming to me as we speak. It was advertised as a medalbar belonging to a diplomat. As a collector of both Dutch and German awards I immediately knew that this wasn't a diplomat's bar. The last decoration is the very rare Dutch House Order of Orange with only 167 awards between 1908 and 1969. This decoration was given out at the personal behest of the monarch for 'services rendered to the royal house'. We know the names of all 167 recipients. Based on this I started scanning the list on people from Hessen, since the combination and sequence of the decorations pointed in that direction. It was clear to me it had to be someone connected to the royal court in Hesse. I ended up with a list of 12 possible persons, of whom Ludwig Göbel or Goebel was the most likely candidate to me. With the help of several collectors I was able to confirm that: - Ludwig Göbel received the Hessian Order of Phillip the magnanimous (2nd award) as Oberbahnhof Vorsteher in Wetzlar on 15. november 1904. - Ludwig Göbel received the Dutch House Order of Orange (last award) on 4. April 1913 as station director in Bad Homburg vor der Höhe. - Ludwig Göbel had received both the Red Eagle Order (3rd award) and the Verdienstkreuz für Kriegshilfe (1st award) by 1918 as Baurat in Hagenau in 1918. Persons working for the railway were amongst the most decorated persons in the German Empire and this would not be an uncommon combination for someone working at the train station of Bad Homburg. Especially given the fact that many different royal families came together there. This would explain the four different orders and the Verdienstkreuz and explain the abscence of an Iron Cross. Given the rarity of the House Order I think this medalbar is identifiable and to correctly identify it to Ludwig Göbel I need to confirm (somehow) that he received the Bulgarian Civil Merit Order somewhere around 1900-1920. Any help would be appreciated. Kind regards, Laurentius
    8. Dear fellow collectors, I am doing research into Baurat Ludwig Göbel. I was wondering if anyone could conform that he received the Bulgarian Civil Merit Order fifth class? I was able to confirm his Dutch and German awards, but my unfamiliarity with Bulgarian awards prevents me from dong so. Thanks in advance. Kind regards, Laurentius
    9. Given the quality of the cross and especially the ribbon I would wager this piece came from the Schrägstick faker. Not original in my opinion.
    10. I'm in two minds about this medal. I disagree that it is not original simply because it misses the mark of Rudolf Mayer or because of the suspension. There are plenty (albeit the silver grade) of medals made as Spangenstücke with a useful ring rather than the nasty and difficult hanger. However, given the uneven gilding and some sloppy details overall I would say that this is not a period-piece, whether awarded or purchased. Especially the variation in thickness of the brim on the reverse of the medal is troubling for me. I wouldn't go so far as saying it is fake, but I would surely not buy it for my collection. Here is a piece of mine, the bigger gold grade made of gilded non-precious metal (it has the little fly stamp at the bottom). Kind regards, Laurentius
    11. The higher quality of the painting is not just the result of the period of manufacture, but also of the grade. The quality of decorations is always tied to the grade, with the higher grades usually having the better (if not best) quality. Kind regards, Laurentius
    12. If it is for enlisted men it won't be an Order of Leopold, which even for officers would be highly unlikely. I can't think of more than a handful of examples, all of whom had other distinguishing honours. A Saxon enlisted man or officer would not be eligible for these awards. I agree with Vince, given that it is a post-1934 ribbonbar is I think it likely we have a red cross decoration at the end. Kind regards, Laurentius
    13. I didn't manage to find the information by Rick but I did find an older thread where I discussed what Rick had said combined with a chart of awardnumbers made by the late Eric Ludvigsen. Does anyone know if Ludvigsen also wrote about the RAO and KO together? I do know that Ludvigsen also wrote about the RAO. Kind regards, Laurentius
    14. Yes I see your point. Come to think of it, the crown also looks a bit weird. Not as wide as a normal Bavarian crown ought to look
    15. Dear fellow collectors, I can vividly recall a topic in which Rick Lundstrom elaborated to quite an extent regarding awarding both the RAO and the KO. I remember that he showed graphs with awards and even explained how the KO had been the rarer before Wilhelm II took the throne. I've searched the forum far and wide (both with terms relating to the RAO and the KO) but I do not seem able to find it. Does anyone know if this information still exists and is there anyone who might have a link to this particular thread? All help would be greatly appreciated. Kind regards, Laurentius
    16. I don't know, the EKII looks genuine too, it's atleast a three-piece construction.
    17. Correct, probably the gold jubilee medal 1887. The picture is from before 1897 (I think) because it does not have the attachment for the diamond jubilee medal of 1897. I noticed during my last visit (this august) that almost all the orders had been removed. Some of the uniforms and helmets remained. I wonder if they were moved to the other castle of the family, whether they were lend to a museum or whether they were sold, given the prices for such pieces in the current market.
    18. Interesting that you should mention Delpher, I was browsing that book today and I found only one recipient of the MGS (your colonel). This was the book of officers between 1900 and 1936. Maybe the previous recipients retired or where never in the armed forces. I will contact Seeheld for the rolls. Kind regards, Laurentius
    19. Despite the fact that more than two and a half years have passed since this discussion I would like to announce that I have finally purchased a Order of St. Gregory the Great by Adrien Chobillon. Here you can see it with my Italian made piece by Tanfani and Bertarelli. There are quite a number of differences, not all of them bad. The motto of the order around the medaillon is of lower quality in the piece made by Chobillon, same goes for the enamel and the wreath. The bust of St. Gregory on the medaillon on the other hand is of better quality with Chobillon, which also goes for the filigrain pattern under the enamel. The last thing I noticed with pieces made by Chobillon is that the wreath is the same as the ones used on the Legion D'Honneur. This interchangeability is not astounding, as Chobillon would have quite an amount of them laying around. Not to mention that the construction of the wreath and the attachment to the cross of of good quality, which is lacking sometimes in Italian-made pieces. Quite happy with it, I got it at rather a good price. It's marked twice, once for Adrien Chobillon and once for silver. Kind regards, Laurentius
    20. Clavareau has the Ritterkreuz of which there were 19, not 4. Still impressive ofcourse. How did you compile these records? Did you use obituaries, Dutch records or Mecklenburg rolls? Kind regards, Laurentius
    21. i came across a piece written by Eric Ludvigsen for the Orders and Medals Society of America. Although his list is incomplete he gives 344 Ritterkreuze between 1884 and 1896. Of these 180 were given to Germans (people from Mecklenburg counted together with the other German states) and 164 to foreigners (110 Russians, 1 dutchman, 33 french etc.). If Nimmergut is correct that would mean that Mecklenburg-Schwerin only awarded 79 more between 1896 and 1918 which seems most unlikely (given developments within Mecklenburg and Germany as a whole). Interesting is that there have only been four Dutch awards until 1896. If Ludvigsen is correct we can probably do away with the number that Nimmergut puts up. This means that either the number 1000 or 1672 could still be true.
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