laurentius

Number four is the Prussian service decoration (PDA). Number eight is the Württembergian Order of the Crown (WK3). Number ten could be anything as long as it is wartime related. At first I thought it was the Hessian medal for bravery (given it's position next to the HP4x) but this seems inpausible given the colour of the ribbon. Kind regards, Laurentius

A RAO, either fourth or third class and a French Legion D'Honneur. A Legion of Honour is not an uncommon decoration for someone working in a scientific field like botany. Kind regards, Laurentius

No, researching the owner of this bar won't be possible. Researching is a minute science which requires hours of work in the hopes (often in vain) of finding a name. Given the large amount of missing awards I doubt an identification is possible. If we were to 'fill in' the blanks any name we could come up with would be impossible to confirm. A great bar, but it won't get a name. Kind regards, Laurentius

In a different thread I talked about removing the ring of taller decorations to fit them on medalbars. I have observed this practice with the Saxe-Ernestine House-Order and the Bulgarian Order of Bravery. Given the size of the Order of the White Falcon this might have happened here too, so I would advice making two cardboard mock-ups, one with and one without the ring. Ofcourse when refurbishing this medalbar I would advice against removing rings, unless you happened to find a ringless example. Kind regards, Laurentius

Despite the suggestions made by other members I reiterate my opinion that the third decoration on the red ribbon should be the Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach Order of the White Falcon. The silver merit cross of this order could be placed there as well, as was recommended by another member, however given the other decorations I find this to be a most unlikely combination. Given the primary connection to Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach I would think of a Saxe-Ernestine House-Order in place four followed by one or two Hanseatic crosses. This is all guesswork, other members and I recommend decorations based on what we think likely in combination with the orders/ribbons present. My thoughts could be completely right or completely wrong. One thing is certain, all the missing decorations between place two and place six are German state decoration. This limits it down, but still gives us a wide range. Kind regards, Laurentius

Why strip the ribbons and ruin what's left of a great bar? Seems unwise to say the least.

He is, and I quite agree. I believe the missing part of the medalbar to be all imperial. I highly doubt that a soldier/NCO would get so many different German and foreign orders. Must have been some special guy, connected to the Red Cross. Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear Vit67, Number three could be the Sachsen-Weimar-Eisenach Order of the White Falcon. Number thirteen is most likely the Ottoman Red Cross Decoration. A full restoration in my opinion is not a worthwhile effort. It would cost a tremendous amount of money, you'd need loads of the rare 15-mm ribbon which is commonly used on bigger bars not to mention the fact we won't be able to identify the medals missing after number three. It's a nice bar, you could fill up the empty ribbons but keep it at that. Kind regards, Laurentius

Haus-orden can correctly be distinguished as the Saxon Verdienstorden. For regular people at home in a pre-computer age it was hard to keep up with the decorations of the 25 (!) different German states. Kind regards, Laurentius

Gold centre with double-headed eagle, that's Lübeck for you

I wonder, given his lastname, whether he has Baltic-german ancestors? His dad was also a quite famous chap from the army, so was his grandfather. Kind regards, Laurentius

Albert Keibel was a Russian jeweler of Swiss descent who made many orders in the years leading up to WW1. His pieces are, as @paul wood mentioned well-priced, but still of great quality. Great items to start a Russian collection with or to repair an old medalbar. Kind regards, Laurentius

This man is wearing a perculiar uniform. It looks like the old pre-ww1 type with Litzen for generals. I doubt they are sowed unto a red backing. No stars on the shoulderboards so he is the lowest general rank in the army (generalmajor). Maybe he got a promotion and upgraded his uniform. Kind regards, Laurentius

Although I expect @Nicolas7507's ribbonbar to be a pre-1939 it was most definetely allowed to wear non-soviet Russian orders. There are several examples of soldiers and officers wearing Russian Imperial decorations after the nazi take-over, both during the Third Reich period and WW2. I know of atleast three recipients of the Order of St. Stanislaus who occassionaly wore their decorations. On a more general note. The wearing of foreign decorations was allowed, as long as those decorations were not handed out by a current foreign government at war with Germany. Before the invasion of Yugoslavia it was perfectly possible for a German to wear an Order of St. Sava just like it was perfectly fine for Germans to wear Italian decorations until 1943. Kind regards, Laurentius

The enamelled cherry on the phaleristic cake of Russia

Was this because it was often given for military merit with swords, much like the Russian Order of St. George or was this Order not bestowed on foreigners in peace-time? Kind regards, Laurentius

Thank you Daniel, one more follow-up question. The highest members of German aristocracy, the kings, granddukes together with the emperor would often receive the Order of St. Andrew the First-called. This order entitled the wearer to all lower Russian Orders first class (Order of St. Anne, Order of St. Wladimir and Order of St. Stanislaus). Would this show up in the ranklists too or would this be automatically assumed when a Russian Order of St. Andrew was mentioned in the lists? Kind regards, Laurentius

Thank you Daniel, that's a very helpful list. I wonder if a similar list exists for Imperial Russian medals for zeal given to Prussian soldiers? I'm afraid not, since decorations to soldiers/NCOs were usually not as neatly recorded as decorations to officers. The list you have given is for Prussian officers and officials. Does this include royalty? I would also be interested in a list of Russian decorations to non-Prussian officers and officials (especially Mecklenburg). I know I am asking for a lot but I really appreciate your help. Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear fellow collectors, Since foreign decorations are no rarity in German groupings, I was wondering how many Orders of St. Stanislaus and Russian medals for zeal were given out to German soldiers and officers untill 1914. I am aware that the White Russian government awarded Russian orders to German members of the Freikorps who fought against the red forces but this is (for now) outside of the scope of my interest. It can be hard to distinguish them in groupings, since they used the same ribbon. Other decorations are needed to determine (roughly) the rank of the recipient if the grouping is unnamed. I realize this number might be hard to give, if there even is a number at all. Orders and medals were bestowed both to regiments with Russian colonels-in-chief and to soldiers and civilians not in these regiments. One example is Kaiser Alexander Garde-Grenadier Regiment n.1. @chechaco1 mentioned 70 Russian awards for the Franco-Prussian wars. I am aware of several decorations given to German heads of state. Were there also non-royals among the recipients? I know of several crosses of St. George given to German privates. Kind regards and thanks in advance, Laurentius

I don't think this was inspired by Napoleon for two reasons. Firstly we have the time this custom was not used. Napoleon was removed from power in 1815 and died in 1821. The earliest examples of this 'short-sash-tradition' are from the 1860's. Secondly Wilhelm I, Archduke Albrecht etc. wear a small piece of sash hidden under their belt which makes me wonder if it is attached to the belt or to the uniform. Napoleon wore an entire sash, blocked from view by his uniform. Just like a sash is largely blocked from view when wearing it under your waistcoat or beneat your jacket. This method of under the uniform is the way Ernest I of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha wears it in the painting made by George Dawe made in 1819. He is the only person so far who later on wore a small piece of sash before the 1860's.

Yes, but that happened more often. Both home-made and professional bars sometimes show mistakes, either in construction, material or precedence. Kind regards, Laurentius

I disagree here, it is not true that the majority of bars is tailor-made in my opinion. Nor do homemade medalbars have to be made with cardboard and safetypins. The quality of these homemade bars is on a certain scale or spectrum, from terribly-made to well-made. I also disagree here. Now as it was then a large part of the cost was the pay for the seamstress. A small plate which could be ready bought ( some of the bigger dealers have these for sale sometimes, although they are only bought by people who make medalbars, either for historical purposes or to scam people). These could be bought for a fraction of the price of a jeweller-made medalbar. Together with the ribbon they already had (most awards came with 20 cm of ribbon which would suffice) and some thread this allowed for a medalbar to be made. Yes, he would have made it for wearing, which doesn't mean he did wear it. Most medalbars where worn only sporadically, being left in the cupboard or on the mantle for the rest of the time. Patina, just like fading comes from wearing, it does not magically appear. I believe this medalbar to be good. It doesn't look like new, one can see where the ribbon has frayed over time (especially at the top corners). On the whole it is in good, but not new condition. Would I buy this bar? No, I wouldn't. Not because it is bad, but because it wouldn't fit in my collection. I don't know who got it on Ebay but rest assured, it was one of the few good ones. Kind regards, Laurentius

As often with certain members of the Wilhelmine era this will be a long, but do-able list. Starting at the neck with: - Grandcross of the Iron Cross - Pour le Merité with oakleaves - Holy Order of the Annunciation (an Italian Roman-Catholic decoration, although sometimes bestowed on non-catholics like Moltke) - Russian Order of St. George This is followed by the sash of the Order of the Black Eagle, below this sash is a cross of the Rechtsritter of the Johanniter-Orden. His medalbar, as often with high-ranking members of the Belle Epoque-era the medalbar is sadly worn below the sash which hinders us from identification. Given his rank there is most likely a correct identification of awards somewhere on the forum. His breast is filed with several high German Orders, being: - Grandcross of the Order of the Black Eagle with diamonds - Baden House Order of Loyalty (Hausorden der Treue) - Saxon Order of the Rue Crown (Orden der Rautenkrone) - Grandcross of the Holy Order of the Annunciation (goes with the necklace) - Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach Order of the White Falcon (Weißen Falken-Orden or Hausorden der Wachsamkeit) - Mecklenburgian Order of the Wendish Crown ( Orden der Wendische Krone) - Last but not least, the EK1 from 1870 A nice picture with Moltke and his more modest attire of orders and decorations. I hope you find this list helpful. Kind regards, Laurentius

So, to summarize, the regents did not hand out any non-Brunswick decorations. Were there officials who did receive a Prussian or Mecklenburgian decoration from the Prussian king or the Mecklenburgian Grandduke for their role during the regency? Members of Brunswick society would receive some decorations just like their German and non-German counterparts but are there known decorations for helping under the regency or for helping Ernst August get started in 1913? Kind regards and thanks in advance, Laurentius

I must say I am intrigued by the quality of the Reuss Honour Cross. Maybe we should do an examination and compare it to the real deal. It is the only one of these 'pieces' which would take me more than a second to determine it's originality