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Gentleman's Military Interest Club


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About eurorders

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    West Tennessee
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    European history and kingdoms, orders of decoration and regalia

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  1. I have since learned from others in my circle that all of these with the exception of the small 3-place group are unlikely genuine medal groups. I am speaking only of the medal bars in last photos submitted covering just those two filled/jumbo cases. It is sad to me to learn that folks would create/fabricate "made-up" sets like what I heard. I am all into genuine things....So let us all now together turn the table of presumptions in this particular regard around to the other direction, namely going with the stance that just about every medal bar in those two cases of my friend are not the real thing -- unless I hear a good rendition otherwise in this forum. Otherwise, I will consider them to not be in the category of entirely real and true parade medal bars.
  2. Thanks Laurentius. I appreciate that. Andreas, since these medal bars are not mine, but belong to another, I do not have the privilege of photographing the backsides of them. I think, let's just go with our normal healthy skepticism and go with what is visible and known. I thank you all for your participation in this interesting quest or discovery.
  3. Then I am glad I did not trade for those two earlier. All: What in $USD is the medal bar containing the order of the red eagle worth? It is the same one with the Frans Josef, silesian eagle, and hanseatic cross in the same bar. I assume it is genuine?
  4. I welcome such remarks, pro and con. They are my friend's medal bars and we all admit one can be fooled when buying things, including me... PS, I am trying to learn more, too, by googling old photos of officers wearing medal bars 1880s til 1930 period, the point of time of interest to me. Also, my specialty, if one could call it that, is PAN European kingdom enameled orders of decoration. So I am kind of a generalist and have broad interests across that wide spectrum. That is a tall order of learning, but it also keeps me from hyper specializing. That said, which of the medal bars in his two cases IS authentic and MOST valuable and also, what are its value brackets? Thanks. I trade with this person and swap items.
  5. These are a couple of cases of interesting medal bars belonging to a friend I swap medals and orders and coins with.
  6. Thank you all together. This helps my own understanding. I have been trading my coin collection for orders of decoration from Europe lately. I started studying European coins 40 years ago, but European orders only since 18 years ago. So there is some degree of learning curve. David, MidSouth US.
  7. A german medal bar for which I traded last week. Here is what a friend who studied them surmised about its potential background. "My impression is that the recipient was a mid-level functionary on the Saxon royal household staff. The Ernestine House Order was probably a retirement (or very long service) award. The knight's grade would tell me that he was a senior NCO/warrant officer. He obviously saw some active duty early in WWI, perhaps on the personal staff of a Saxon royal. The "merit medal" grade awards support this theory. From the wedding medal to the Turkish medal, I see support of royal/diplomatic visits. Even the Austrian merit cross is on the peacetime ribbon, so probably related to a trip to Austria by his boss (or from the Austrian kaiser to Saxony). It looks like he started in the early 1900s. The wedding medal was for 1905, so he was probably on the royal staff for that. The latest medal is the Hindenburg Cross (1934), so he still alive then. Interesting that he did not acquire the Austrian, Hungarian or Bulgarian WWI commemorative medals, although he may have felt that this group was impressive enough. I don't know enough about German Court and State Handbooks to know who is listed and if awards such as these show up, but that would be the next step of inquiry to see if it's possible to attach a name to the bar. A great group, with a very unusual combination of awards." Here is what I think them to be.... 1 iron cross 1914 2 Saxe Coburg Gotha Saxe Ernestine house order merit medal with 1914 and swords 3 Hind. Cross 4 Saxe Ernestine House order cross, knight 5 wedding medal Duke Carl Edward 6 Prussian order of the crown medal 7 9-year medal 8 Bulgarian Ferdinand medal for merit with crown and flying pendilla 9 Bulgarian Ferdinand silver medal 10 Austria merit cross with crown, enameled 11 Sweden Gustav V silver medal 12 Turkish medal for merit, silver
  8. eurorders

    Black St Stanislas

    some closeups without the ribbon attached, front and back. One of the pictures' angle reflects the lamp light or flash more than desired.
  9. Hi, Seeheld. I was wondering if you were saying if you already had one of these pictured medals or bars specifically yourself too? I was not clear. I am happy to provide photos of the reverse side, enclosed. Merry Christmas.
  10. eurorders

    Black St Stanislas

    This III class one I believe to be from the 1850s. 13 grams. 42 MM across.
  11. good point. However, I have seen this with other medal bars. On occasion. I did check the backing and it is original, along with a couple of moth holes in the backing wool and a vintage clasp pin. Also the ribbon is worn at the top as would show wear now and then over a century, so I feel fine with it. I posted a few other medal bars I acquired about the same time in another log on this network.
  12. Here are five medal bars and some related items I acquired lately.
  13. This was a nice addition to go alongside the other set...a dual piece imperial medal bar. David
  14. Remarking on the other part of your question, here are some good guide books, among others Title Author Year Publisher Orders and Decorations of Europe in Color Hieronymussen 1967 MacMillan British Orders and Decorations Risk 1973 Hayward Orders and Decorations Purves 1972 Hamlyn/Sun Books Ephemeral Decorations Gillingham 1935 Amer Numis Soc. Debrett’s Guide to Heraldry and Regalia Williamson 1992 Headline Orders and Medals of Bulgaria Patrov 2000 Voenno Izdatelstvo Book of Orders of Knighthood and Decorations of Honour of All Nations Burke 1858 N&M Press The History of the Order of Bath and Its Insignia Risk 1972 Spink British Orders, Decorations and Medals Hall 1973 Balfour Court Jewelers of the World Jacob 1978 Postgraduate International Catalogue of Military and Naval Campaign Medals and Gallantry Awards 1980 Sothebys Orders, Decorations, and Insignia, Military and Civil Wyllie 1921 Forgotten Books European Orders and Decorations to 1945 Duckers 2007 Shire British Orders and Decorations Duckers 2004 Shire Bulgaria Imperial Orders and Medals 1887-1945 Furlan 1996 Militaria House Parade Medals of the Third Reich Yanacek 2008 Schiffer Book of Orders and Decorations Mericka 1975 Hamlyn Orders and Decorations Mericka 1967 Hamlyn Orders and Decorations of All Nations Ancient and Modern Civil and Military Werlich Second Edition, 1973 & 1990 Quaker Press Spinks Catalogue of British and Associates Orders, Decorations and Medals Joslin 1983 Webb & Bower Imperial Austrian Medals and Decorations Von Falkenstein 1972 -o- private Militaria: A Study of German Helmets & Uniforms 1729-1918 Kube 1990 Schiffer Orders and Decorations of All Nations Werlich 1965 Quaker Press Military Medals & Decorations of the United States and Europe Ball & Peters 1994 Schiffer Medal Yearbook 2004 Mackay & Mussell 2004 Token Publishing Vernon’s Guide to Orders, Medals & Decoration with Valuations Vernon 2000 Self/private The Medal Collectors’ Companion Collecting and Identifying Orders, Medals and Decorations Vernon 1995 Self/private Royal Insignia: British and Foreign Orders of Chivalry from the Royal Collection Patterson 1997, 1998 The Royal Collection Medals Ribbons of Imperial Austria and Germany Neville 1974 Balfour Publications Militaria – Die Militar Dienstzeichen 1849-1989 Steiner 1993 self Deutsche Orden & Ehrenzeichen 1800 – 1945 Nimmergut 2017 Battenberg Bewertung Katalog Deutschland 1871-1945 Orden Und Ehrenzeichen Niemann 2009 Self/private History of the Early Orders of Knighthood & Chivalry Neville 1978 Albemarle 4 volume Borna Barac series called Reference Catalogue Orders, Medals and Decorations of the World instituted until 1945. Borna Barac 2009 through 2013 OBOL Ribbons and Medals Dorling 1974 Philip British and Foreign Orders, War Medals and Decorations Payne 1981 Hayward
  15. That then is one HEAVY medal in gold! Here is some of my budding research on scales and weights of some gold Euro orders of old. I only WISH I owned these, but one day...: " Greek Order Redeemer 18K commander 23.8 grams and 45 MM by 95 MM. Order Vasa 60 by 38 MM 16.5 grams Order Vasa knight crosses: 15.6, 16.1, 14.8, 14.3, 17.9, 16.1, 15.8 and 14.2 grams Order polar star knight 14.46 grams Prussia Order Crown 1st class 62 MM by 67 MM 34.5 grams Prussia Order Crown 1st class 60 MM by 65 MM 25.5 grams Prussia Order Crown commander 52 by 52 19.8 grams Monaco Order St. Charles officer or knight. 20.3 grams Monaco grand cross, order of Karl or Carlos 33.5 grams and 54 MM across Hesse Order Philip the magnanimous knight 13.9 (14 g) 35 MM across. Order Orange Nassau knight, 55 MM side to side and weight 33 grams. German, Saxon military order St. Henry 76 MM by 120 MM 103 grams Bavaria Order St. Michael 47 MM by 83 MM 28.6 grams Bavaria merit order 50 by 77 MM (long cross) An early Bavarian merit order without flames or crown 39 MM by 46 MM and 13.1 grams (1800s) Luxembourg Order Oaken Crown officer, 15 grams Netherlands, Orange Nassau Officer 17 grams Stanislas grand cross 60.5 MM (tall) by 55.5 MM across 30.5 grams St. Stanislas commander 48 MM by 52 MM. Others were 56 MM and 49 MM St. Stanislas first class 61 MM by 66 MM Stanislas first class 27.6 grams St. Stansilas 2nd class 55 MM by 43 MM wide. Weight 11 grams asking $1,800 Stanislas 2nd class 19.9 grams St. Stanislas 2nd class 49 MM by 53 MM Stanslas 2nd class 47 MM by 51 MM Stanislas 3rd class 40 MM by 40 MM and 10.4 grams Stanislas 3rd class 10.4 grams St. Stanislas 3rd class 11 grams and 45 MM Stansilas 3rd class. 40 MM Large early Order of Leopold 40 grams! Another one I saw is 45 grams! Order Franz Josef commander 25.5 grams and 20.7 grams Order Franz Josef commander 37 MM by 70 MM Franz Josef knight cross 16.5 grams Sweden Order of the Sword grand cross 81 MM by 58 MM 39.6 grams other O. of Sword grand crosses 29.5 grams and 30.4 grams Order of Sword commanders cross 79 MM by 59 MM and 34.7 grams> others are 28.6, 33.1, 33.4 grams Order Sword knights crosses 16.7, 21.6, 10.8, 9.8, 11.1, 16.8, 19.9, 16.2 and 15.3 grams Sweden Order North Star knights cross 16.1 , 18.6, 15.4, 12.1, 12.7 and 17.8 grams grams Order North Star grand cross, 27.6 grams Order North Star commanders crosses: 24.3, 27.2 grams Order North star commander 55 MM by 80 MM Sweden Order Seraphim 28. Grams Bavarian Military Merit order 39.6 MM by 46 MM and 13.1 grams Legion Honor Napoleon III grand commander 19.44 grams Legion Honor 2nd empire 43 MM officer 19 grams Legion Honor officer third republic 16 grams Order of the Iron Crown 29.5 MM by 54.7 MM knight breast badge 24.7 grams Order Iron Crown knight 19.31 grams O. Iron Crown 90 MM high and 40 MM wide Hungary Order St. Stephen 42 MM by 78 MM 25.3 grams Saxe Ernestine House Order 57 MM across and 89 MM tall. 1.3 ounces Bavarian Order Military Merit, 2nd class 24.5 grams Brunswick Order of Henry the Lion, commander, 32.4 grams Royal Guelphic Order commander 18K 37.7 grams 48 MM by 76 MM Order Dannebrog 40 MM by 77 MM and 40.6 grams Order Dannebrog knights crosses: 14, 14.8, 15.7, 16.3 12.7, 17.3 and 14.6 grams Dannebrog commanders cross 33.8 grams Dannebrog grand cross 48.2 grams and 32.3 grams (75 MM by 38 MM) Duchy of Parma 10.8 grams knight II class asking 43 MM across, Order Carloss III of spain 11.2 grams Order Vladimir 40 MM by 40 MM (14K) 15.8 grams. Order Vladimir 4th class 39 MM tall by 35 MM wide, 7 grams St. Vladimir 4th class 34.6 MM by 38.8 MM Order Vladmir 4th class 34.5 MM and 7.27 grams St. Anne commander 34.7 MM and 7.7 grams Order St. Anna 35 MM and 9 grams O. St. Anna 2nd class 42.5 MM by 49 MM O. St. Anna 2nd class 21.5 grams St. Anna/Anna 44 MM St. Anna 3rd class 36 MM by 40 MM (14K) St. Anna 45 MM by 45 MM Netherlands O. of North Star, knight 43 MM Netherlands Order North Star first class/grand officer 55 MM by 80 MM Zahringer Lion 39 MM A grand cross 84 MM tall by 54 MM wide, 33.5 grams (a little over ounce) Norwegian Order St. Olav 56 MM by 87 MM Germany Order of White Falcon 40 by 60 MM and 13.2 grams Peter Freidrich Ludwig (Louis) knight cross 15.7 grams Order of Red Eagle II class 20.6 grams Order of the Crown III class 10.8 grams Brandenburg Order of St. Johannis grand cross 102 grams Saxon Order of Albrecht/Albert commander cross 31.2 grams and 32.4 grams, another model Saxon Ernestine House Order commander cross 55.6 grams Wurttemberg Friedrichs order commander cross 29.4 grams Order of Leopold grand cross 50.6 grams Order of Leopold commander 45.4 grams and 10.9 grams Order of Leopold commander 45 grams and 91 MM by 57 MM Another Order Leopold commander 41 grams and 90 MM by 56 MM Pre 1887 Order St. Michael and St. George commander (KC) 68.2 grams Order St. Lazarus, Italy grand cross 36.8 grams Order of the Italian crown grand officer 17.6 grams Order of the Italian crown commander, 15.5 grams Order of the Italian crown officer, 9.1 grams Order St. Olaf grand cross 33.1 grams Order St. Olaf commander 36.1 grams Order of Leopold (Austria) knight 19.4 grams