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Gentleman's Military Interest Club

Tom King

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Everything posted by Tom King

  1. Has anyone got any pictures of a British Policeman wearing police mess dress. Thankyou Tom
  2. What was his divisional number on H ?
  3. Interesting he kept the same warrant number. I wonder if pensioners who rejoined were called something other than War Reserve as you say RP is nor WR. I wonder what happened to that database does ESB historical records have access to it ?
  4. The Metropolitan Police reserve were normal full time officers they were just employed on other duties not beat duty per se. On the other hand War Reserve Constables were recruited directly for police duties during wartime. As the title suggests they were volunteers who had the full powers of Constable sworn in under the Special Constable Act. The Met for example during WW2 used around 5000 of its Special Constables Full time, recruited some 18000 WRCs and re engaged nearly 3000 police pensioners.
  5. I remember back in the 80s an officer not long out of his probation had been up to no good pretending he was on the flying squad and chatting up ladies working in banks. He got caught as one of the security managers at a certain bank was ex police, he was suspicious and asked to see his warrant card. He made a note of his name and reported it to the local police. Needless to say he was identified and called in to see his Divisional Chief Superintendent who gave him the option of resigning or facing a discipline investigation. He was gone the same day leaving half his stuff behind in the Section house. It was clearly an option to save embarrassment to both the job and the individual where it was clearly not a criminal matter but a discipline matter. Wouldn't happen today you can't resign even if you wanted to if facing gross misconduct discipline.
  6. Thats because the London Docks were commercial docks. The docks that the Met were responsible for were all were Royal Navy dockyards. So they were responsible for the security and policing of naval dockyards, not commercial enterprise.
  7. Interesting question and not one I can answer properly without further research. Initial training would have been very limited in 1897 and be based on military concepts i.e. marching etc, most training was done out on division. I am not sure when Peel House was established which served as a training facility for many years. I would also assume that on attestation Constables would have immediately be assigned a divisional number. So new recruits so to speak would probably be shown on divisional strengths. Again this is an assumption on my part so if anyone else can enlighten us I would be pleased to hear it.
  8. To qualify for the 1897 medal they had to be serving Metropolitan Police (or City of London Police, which was a separate medal) officer on the day of the jubilee and not already in receipt of the 1887 medal in which case they received a bar marked 1897 for the 1887 medal. The 5 year service ruling is a modern concept only introduced For the QEII  Golden Jubilee medal.  
  9. 1st Division: Woolwich 2nd Division: Portsmouth 3rd Division: Devonport 4th Division: Chatham 5th Division: Pembroke 6th Division: Rosyth
  10. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-24067335 Lets hope.....
  11. Mervyn I could not agree more. What a joke,not worth the effort.
  12. Interesting photo. I cannot make out the divisional letter on the collars or helmets are they all the same ? I go with Mervyn the flag in the background suggests the 1911 Coronation, and the medal may be a local corporation coronation medal?
  13. My Early Police Days................. Part 4

    The Towers at Hendon were built to accommodate recruits. There is no longer any recruit training at Hendon thus the Towers are now redundant. Bow Street Police Station and the Court were not demolished, they are now vacant awaiting a final decision on how they are going to be developed into flats and housing. there is some talk of the Met Museum collection being located there in part of the old police station but this is a long running debate which has still to be finalised. The current collection has some exhibits on display at Empress State Building in West Brompton this is only a fraction of what can be shown as the premises is small.
  14. My Early Police Days - Part 3

    I would be interested to hear what he has to say. My thoughts are that as the Justice of the Peace issue is now long assigned to history by the 1986 Public Order Act , The Commissioner DC and ACs will still be serving police officers with the powers of constable. They do have warrant cards and I believe the Silver tokens are now given on retirement and not carried any longer as a badge of office and identification.
  15. My Early Police Days - Part 3

    Dave The MPA no longer exists it is now MOPAC. The selection of the Commissioners post I can assure you is a joint decision between the Mayor and the Home Secretary it is a matter of semantics who recommends the post to the queen. Also legislation has now been passed that opens the Commissioners post to foreign nationals. I am not going to die in a ditch over this the reality is the Commissioner of the Metropolis is the most sought after senior police position in England and Wales. As I previously said each chief constable has autonomy in their own force area the Met Commissioner has no authority over them per se. But i simply do not see how you can argue the Met Commissioners post is on par with all other Chief Constables the Met has national responsibilities outside policing just the London area. Also I will think you will find both the current Commissioner and deputy Commissioner have warrant cards and I assume that as they are career police officers the powers of Constable.
  16. My Early Police Days - Part 3

    I beg to differ. I think Mervyn is spot on with regards the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis and Deputy Commissioner being the Senior Police Officers in England and Wales. But I will defer the HMIC top job considering the person now in post. You just have to look at the rank insignia to see the difference. Chief Constables in fact wear the same rank as Assistant Commissioners in the Met. I accept a Chief Constable has autonomy in his/her policing area but how can you assess that the Commissioner with National Policing responsibilities including Counter Terrorism and a staff of over 50,000 is on par with a Chief Constable who may have a total of 1500 staff in their force area? The Commissioner never even used to be a member of ACPO as he is appointed by the Home Secretary.
  17. My Early Police Days - Part 3

    The towers at Hendon Police College are no longer functional and have been empty verging on derelict for several years. There were three towers which functioned as accommodation blocks for the college. This area of the estate is in the process of being sold for redevelopment which I believe has caused some problems in itself as the land was original MOD part of RAF Hendon which was given to the police so there have been issues as to ownership.
  18. They are UK Police Chief Constables rank insignia.
  19. No photos in the police archives for individuals although many had private photos taken. George joined 06/04/85 resigned 26/03/88 entitled to the 1887 Jubilee medal a PC on N Division. He resigned of his own accord. I see that there is also a Charles Enticknap with such an unusual name he must be related he served 1887 to 1913
  20. Guv, Guv'nor and Boss seem to be the main terminology in use in the Met today for Inspectors and above. Sir and Ma'am are also still used as the formal address. As for veteran, it is used/misused a lot more in the US than in the UK. However the term is not just related to length of service. For instance soldiers who have survived a particular campaign or war no matter how long they fought could be considered veterans of that campaign or war, especially wars or battles where life expectancy was limited.
  21. Great research to support this group. One observation: Detective rank is not a promotion !
  22. I missed the original reference to the 97 bar. It would be great to see a photo of what we are talking about here as this has got me intrigued. I have an unnamed 1897 somewhere which I assume originally was part of the spare allocation sent to Divisions.
  23. When did officer actually receive these medals where they issued prior to the event or well after? With his discharge so close to the event is it not more than likely a medal was named to him in anticipation of him being in service and prior to the jubilee a submission made of the names of all serving officers. It may have then been sent to the division never to be issued as he was released from service prior to the event?
  24. Can we have a fuller picture view of the style. As Bengullion suggests Met ACPO ranks have always traditionally had patch pockets and belts. I think it is Woods Jacket which he no doubt had made prior to going to Australia, and may well have worn when he got there. Whether he wore it in the Met or HMIC and changed the crowns can be perhaps investigated by the full style. He may have had it made at appointment specifically for Australia before leaving the UK.
  25. These buttons are common to all Police ranks in England & Wales which are of the level of Association of Chief Police Officers. In the Met Police this is the rank of Commander and above and in the County Forces, Assistant Chief Constable and above. Ranks below this will have buttons which are attributed to their particular force, whereas ACPO ranks have commonality across the country. A few years ago I saw a set of these in silver in a presentation box, from the early fifties, I wish I had bought them ......
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