MREID

Many thanks Demir for taking the time to create this most useful ( and fully bilingual! ) chart. As a budding collector of Ottoman campaign medals I have already found it both informative and very convenient. All the Best, Mark

Hello again; Just a quick follow-up to my previous message. The Khedive's Sudan Medals were indeed struck and assembled at the Royal Mint and, according to my notes, a total of at least 20, 262 medals were despatched to Egypt in seven consecutive lots between October 1898 and February 1910. These are the figures recorded in the Royal Mint Order Books. The clasps & pins were shipped separately and the component parts were assembled in Egypt, possibly at the Citadel in Cairo. The medals were then distributed and, in some cases, named by the parent unit. Hope this was of some interest. Cheers, Mark

Hello All; Thanks, Peter, for your kind words. Les, yes, it's a lovely medal isn't it? In answer to your queries; 1. G.W. de Saulles, who also designed the Queen's Sudan Medal, the Cape of Good Hope General Service Medal and various other awards. 2. Good question, I presume the Royal Mint but stand to be corrected by a better-informed person! 3. Medal rolls for British Army recipients survive at The National Archives at Kew but are probably available on ancestry.com too. Medal rolls for the Egyptian Army, who received the vast majority of these awards, have not survived unfortunately, although many recipients were also entitled to the Egypt medal and these rolls are available at the new sources above. A warning, however, they are in a rather jumbled order and can prove a bit of a challenge. My primary interest is Egypt and Sudan medals to the Egyptian Army and I would be delighted to try and assist anyone who has examples. Cheers, Mark

Hello Les; I concur with the two comments made by Paul and Peter and perhaps I might be permitted to add a few other observations? The Khedive's Sudan Medal was issued to the Egyptian Army un-named but several units saw fit to engrave/impress the recipient's details on the medal. Having examined a number of these medals, and written a wee book on them, I can confirm that the naming on your example is consistent with all other medals to the XIIth Sudanese Bn. that I have seen. Naming was done with a series of metal punches and consisted of the recipient's personal number followed by a dash and then the battalion number, in this case 961 - 12. We should remember that Arabic is named from Right to Left, except for numbers, which are read from Left to Right, as in English.This naming sequence was unique to this battalion amongst all of the Sudanese infantry battalions of the Egyptian Army. The XIIth Sudanese Bn. was initially raised in 1886 but disbanded shortly thereafter, only to be re-raised in 1888. As a half-strength battalion it fought at the Battle of Gemaizah in 1888, with 221 members earning the Egypt Medal and clasp. During the reconquest of the Sudan, the XIIth fought at Firket, Hafir, The Atbara, Khartoum ( Omdurman ) Gedaref and Talodi. The Khedive's Sudan Medal appears to have been initially issued almost universally with the first two clasps, as on your example, so your man may have been entitled to a few more clasps, if he survived the enemy and cholera epidemic. Judging by your man's number, he probably enlisted in about 1894, and would almost certainly have been from one of the Nilotic tribes like the Nuer, Shiluk, etc. I hope you enjoy the medal! Cheers, Mark

Hello All; I wouldn't dream of entering the discussion about cleaning medals but if you post a scan of the naming, Chris, then I can tell you what it says. Even if it only provides his number and regiment, etc. then I just might be able to provide you with his name. Now where did I leave that cask of Silver-Dip ... ! Cheers, Mark

Hello again, Gents; I think campaign medals were also sometimes converted to brooches so that a soldier's window could display the award of her late husband. I have a Crimean War Medal named to an Alma casualty that has been changed into this type of mourning " badge. " Military pensions were pretty meagre in those days and this might be the sole opportunity for a soldier's wife/widow to have a piece of silver jewellery. Other campaign medals were altered to become watch fobs, no doubt to allow the recipient to wear it every day in a relatively conspicuous fashion in civilian dress. It would be a good conversation starter and allow other veterans to identify, and possibly, patronise a particular person or his business. I have a British War Medal 1914-20 awarded to an Egyptian doctor that has been converted into a fob and wonder if this might have given him a certain cachet or unstated link with his ex-military patients. Yes, I know, sometimes I let my imagination run a little too free! I think it likely that many Egypt/Sudan Medals converted to jewellery by Egyptian or Sudanese soldiers would have been done for female relations too. Former soldiers would probaly have continued to wear their awards, as evidenced by a number of photos held by the Sudan Archives at Durham University. When the veterans died then I can see the medals being converted to honour their loved ones, as well as providing a pretty flashy looking adornment for the missus. I agree wholeheartedly that these alterations detract from the original look and meaning of a medal, but at least it has allowed these awards to survive into the present day. So many other campaign medals, particularly in Egypt, etc. have been relegated to the jewellers melting pot and have disappeared forever. I suppose we should be grateful for small mercies. Cheers, Mark

Hello Jeff; As Mervyn and sabrigade have already commented, military medals to Egyptian and Sudanese troops were sometimes recycled into civilian ornaments and worn in civilian clothes. However, the example which you have is the 1882 dated Star and this was only awarded to about 20 members of the Khedive's naval and military forces after the 1882 Egypt campaign. None of these recipients were of a social standing that would have made such a conversion likely so I suspect that your example was " recycled " by a Brit. I should just mention that sometimes the Khedive's Star was improved by Egyptian recipients who had it silver dipped in order to look a little better and to match the Egypt Medal which they might have received. I think that this might have been done upon promotion or transfer to the Police when their budget might have allowed it! Thanks for sharing this item. Cheers, Mark

Hello again Hannibal; Yes, the date shown on the Archives website for this man is his birthdate so he certainly was an " Old Salt " during 1914-18. The Ancestry.com website does have a better version of the MIC's but haven't heard that their naval records are any better. Certainly cheaper to spend the three quid via the Archives website, you may very well discover that Petty Officer Phippard had a long and interesting naval career, perhaps earning some other medals. You may find that he was born in Portsmouth because his father was a sailor, soldier or marine. I was born in Portsmouth too but opted for the Army! Good luck with the research. Mark

Dear Hannibal; I'm no expert on the Royal Navy but your Victory Medal would appear to be named to a Stoker Petty Officer. The RN introduced a letter prefix for newly-joined men in the early 1900's I seem to recall, with the letter "K" going to Stokers, so your man probably joined before 1900. Your man is entitled to at least a British War Medal and you can acquire a copy of his service record by Googling The National Archives at Kew. Look under Seamen's Service Records and for the paltry sum of a few Pounds, ( $6 ) you can receive an electronic copy within seconds if you use your credit card. The service sheet will give a list of his ships, promotions, qualifications, etc. and should provide a good idea of his naval career. I hope this helps and good luck with your research. Mark

Hi David: A very good question and one for which I have never seen a comprehensive reply. I've been collecting Egypt medals and Khedive's Stars to the Egyptian Army for a number of years and although I have no statutory reference I will suggest a possible answer, as follows. The Khedive's Star was THE Egyptian campaign medal during the period 1882 until 1892. Its award was completely separate from that of the Egypt medal and one sometimes sees official portraits of Egyptian officers wearing a Star but without the British Egypt Medal. As there were essentially no survivors from the Hicks debacle, their entitlement to a Star is probably academic, although those who emerged from the Sudan in the 1890's may have been allowed to make a claim at the Cairo War Office. Certainly Egyptian troops who fought in and around Suakin in 1884 would have received the Star. Remember, even though the British expedition under General Graham only stayed a few weeks at Suakin, the Egyptian garrison consisted of the 1st and 5th Infantry Bns. 100 cavalrymen and a detachment of artillery and they stayed, in some cases, for the next two years. These men earned the 1884 Star and I have a pair of medals to an officer that includes the 1884 dated Star. Egyptian troops who fought at El-Teb and Tamaai also earned the Egypt Medal with appropriate clasps but wore this foreign award after the Khedive's Star. I have another group of four medals to a soldier of the Xth Sudanese Bn. and as he didn't see action until the Battle of Gemaizah in 1888, his Star is of the undated variety. Anyway, as I said, I can't provide documentary evidence of this but certainly the photos and medals that I have seen certainly support the premise that the Stars wre awarded by the Khedive with the appropriate date. The Stars were made in the UK but their distribution was left in the hands of the Egyptian War Office. Please feel free to send me a private message at tapir@rogers.com if you would like to discuss further. My apologies to everyone for inadvertently sending this message before it was complete. Cheers, Mark

Good evening; Just a semi-educated guess, but how about 1st Cinque Ports, Royal Garrison Artillery ( Volunteers ) from Sussex? I don't have it to hand but you might want to have a look at " The Volunteer Artillery 1859-1908 " by N. Litchfield and R. Westlake, published in 1982. Good luck! Mark

Hello Gents; I'm neither an expert on fly whisks or Egyptian civil uniforms but I can claim a nodding acquaintance with the Egyptian Army ( EA ) of the 19th century. Must admit that I had never come across the fly whisk as a badge of office but certainly horse tails were used to denote the most important of all Ottoman standards, the Sancag-i Serif which was always taken on campaign and kept in a special tent. It was accompanied by seven tug which consisted of horse tails carried on poles. It's quite likely that the symbolism was retained by subsequent Ottoman Sultans and a fly whisk regraded as an obvious, and quite functional ( ! ) symbol of office. No doubt everyone is familiar with the following but, just in case, here's a list of the Ottoman ranks that were used in the EA until the mid-1950's when a pan-Arabic system of ranks was introduced; SIRDAR - Commander-in-Chief FERIK - Lt-Genl. LEWA - Major-Genl. MIRALAI - Colonel/Brigadier KAIMAKAM - Lt-Col. BIMBASHI - Major SAGHKOLAGHASI - Captain/Major acting as Bn. Staff Officer YOUSBASHI - Captain MULAZIM AWAL - Lieutenant MULAZIM TANI - 2/Lieut. In addition, the 3 general officer ranks carried with them the honourific title of PASHA, Miralai and Kaimakam carried the honourific BEY while the lesser ranks received the title of EFFENDI. All of these honourific titles were also used within the Ottoman/Egyptian civil service and a man's title would indicate his rank within the civil/military establishment. The term EFFENDI was used in deference to any man of education and civilian clerks and translators serving with the EA were granted this title. Now that I think about it, I seem to recall seeing a photograph of Sir Reginald Wingate Pasha, sometime Sirdar of the EA, Governor-General of the Sudan and, finally, Briain's High Commissioner in Egypt, holding a fly whisk in one of his portraits. Must see what I can find. Cheers, Mark

Hi Brian; May I echo everyone's comment on how good it is to see such a gathering of Khedive's Stars, very well done indeed, especially on acquiring the undated version. just a few gratuitous comments; 1) Interesting that all of your examples have had their original matte black finish removed. This was quite common practice amongst British troops who favoured a shiny finish, no doubt to match the polished silver Egypt medal. Egyptian troops, of course, wore the Khedive's Star in front of the Egypt Medal, which was a foreign decoration, and I have never seen a picture of an Egyptian soldier wearing a Star that has been polished. Of course, over-zealous collectors might also have broken out the Brasso during the intervening years! 2) The Tokar clasp was issued in 1892 to commemorate the capture of the hamlet of Tokar and was certainly issued to Egyptian troops who had earned an earlier, dated, Star. We mustn't forget that the Khedive's Star was, essentially, the Egyptian campaign medal and was awarded to Egyptian troops who may not have received the Queen's Egypt medal. 3) There would have been very few Egyptian soldiers who woiuld have qualified as there was a 7-year gap between 1885 and Tokar and the term of service of Egyptian soldiers was only 4 years, until 1888 when it was extended to 6 years. I suspect that most of those who added the Tokar clasp to a Star issued for the 1884-85 campaigns would have been NCO's and Officers. 4) The only units to serve in both the 1884-85 campaigns and at Tokar were the 4th Infantry Bn., two troops of Egyptian Cavalry and the Egyptian Field Batteries. Staff officers and " Odd-Men " etc. would also have qualified of course. Whoever they were, they certainly earned these Stars! Thanks for sharing your various collections. Cheers, Mark

Hi Kiwi; I'm afraid that I can't positively identify the buckle but am almost positive that it is NOT Egyptian Army, my own small niche of interest. I asked a friend of mine in the Middle East if he could shed any light on the inscription and this is what he wrote; " As regards the translation, the letters are not terribly distinct and so the best guess is 'Almighty Force'. In Arabic 'Kowah' is used for force or a unit smaller than a regiment. We could of course be trying to translate Turkish and if it is Arabic then the 'almighty' is not to be confused with Allah! " My apologies if this just casts further doubt on the buckle but I was hoping he would write back with a definitive translation of the inscription. I have written to the Military Museum in Istanbul in the past and they have been quite helpful, although they write back, not surprisingly, in Turkish! Good luck with the research. Mark

Hi Gents; Great image, and my apologies for taking so long to add my two-cents' worth. Ed Haynes is absolutely correct about the Egyptian order of precedence for this fellow's medals. This is exactly how they should be worn by someone in Egyptian government service. I don't just limit it to the Egyptian Army (EA) because I'm pretty sure that the central figure in this photo is in the Police. A couple of reasons why; 1) He wears a coloured collar, not worn by Sudanese soldiers. 2) He carries a whistle and cane. 3) His tarboosh cover bears a diamond-shaped flash with an additional badge. A diamond flash was only worn by the 1st and 3rd Infantry Bns. of the EA. These two units were composed of Egyptians, and Sudanese could not have been members, they were only allowed in the IXth to the XVIIth Bns. I have no doubt that this fellow had been in the EA but had probably transferred to the Police on the reduction of the Army after 1898. Sudanese soldiers generally served for life, unlike their Egyptian counterparts, and it is quite possible that he was selected for more responsible service than stamping about a Khartoum parade square. I agree that he seems to exude authority, not a bad characteristic for a native constable, or any constable for that matter! An impressive looking individual anyway. Cheers, Mark