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Gentleman's Military Interest Club

Destruction

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    Latvia
  1. Destruction

    deutsche schutzdivision badge

    Look, first of all the plakette is dated 1919-1920 (!), while in document it's clearly stated: december 1919. Deutsche Schutzdivision was formed in January 1919 in Zossen from 31. Infanterie-Division and already in June 19 became Reichswehr-Brigade 25. Exactly as in document (31.Division/Schutzdivision/Reichswehr-Brigade 25), and nothing to do with Landesschützenkorps which mentioned on plakette ( used to form Reichswehr-Brigade 4 ). I can not exclude that plakette was awarded to members of Deutsche Schutzdivision, but I really doubt this document belongs to it. What do you think? One more thing. For example, Dr. Klietmann in his article calls Erinnerungszeichen der Deutschen Legion as "plakette" as well. May I ask our German friends here if this word can be used for badges ?
  2. Destruction

    deutsche schutzdivision badge

    Ehhh Brian, what I'm trying to tell is that this badge is OLD. It's absolutely impossible that is was made 10-20 years ago, ask any 3rd Reich collectors how much time needed for zinc to dissolve silvering like this. Can you show me more badges like this on sale? Made of zinc and with very same details? Also, zinc is the last material I'd use for any kind of copies. It's very brittle and has very narrow temperature range for die-struck. Germans used it for production just because it was cheap and available. If this badge is real, in this version it definitely was not worn as collar. It should be a commemorative badge and worn as such on a breast. And... it's Freikorps and has no connection with how long you're collecting, sorry. There are lots of undiscovered things in this area, I think you will agree. Did you ever seen Kreuzberg cross f.e, before it appeared last year? Even VerKuilen Ager never seen it as he told me. So yes, let's wait for some additional facts/pictures/groups to make it evident or unreal, but thus far it has a good chances IMO. After studying this in deep, looks like I can tell which badge this document represents
  3. Destruction

    deutsche schutzdivision badge

    Hey Brian, Can you explain why do you think it's fake? From production point of view? I mean, the badge is die stamped from zinc, this means it was produced in quantities. If it's fake, where are all other badges? We do not see them on sale , why? Also, can you show any zinc based fake with finish faded like this? If you will put it into aggressive environment to make it quick, you will get it corroded. Finish like this can only be made by aging when zinc is "eating" the finish. Eric, I do not want to make fakers life easier, will check measurements and contact you via PM.
  4. Destruction

    deutsche schutzdivision badge

    Well, zinc it is, with faded silver finish, as I supposed. I'm not much into production but as far as I'm concerned it's impossible to made cast zinc counterpart badge, isn't it? Also this faded finish, eaten by base metal, as we see on WW2 items... So I believe this badge is original, probably produced/ordered at the same run when they did these plakette. No idea if document belongs to badge or plakette though, as I said previously.
  5. The second from left is for Malteser/Awaloff cross (the one you show).
  6. Destruction

    deutsche schutzdivision badge

    Yup! Irregardless of which badge it represents.
  7. Destruction

    deutsche schutzdivision badge

    Just found this image. Brian, you probably referred to this badge speaking about "club" fake ? Because this piece of crap is taken straight from ordensammler site.
  8. Destruction

    deutsche schutzdivision badge

    Hi Brian, I had 2 of these plakettes and both were silvered zinc. I insist I'm travelling right now and cant't provide pictures , here is another one from some forum. Silvered zinc with faded finish it is. Speaking about badge in question , I will have it for hand inspection in a week. I'd say, if it's really silvered zinc, it has a chance. Let's see.
  9. Destruction

    deutsche schutzdivision badge

    Hi Brian, Thanx for your comments! Honestly said I was thinking about plakette as an option as I never took these badges seriously and thought it's a fantasy item based on collar badge design. But let's make research in full this time. First of all, as I understand the badge came with document from reliable sources, together with some photos. Second, it differs from known fakes from the "club" , here is one attached. And I think you're wrong about finish, I see the traces of silvering, same poor silvering as on plakette, by the way. Plakette is made of silvered (!) zinc so the finish is eaten by zinc as we see on 3rd Reich badges. One more question--do you (or anybody) have collar badge in hands? If yes, can you give me the size?
  10. Destruction

    deutsche schutzdivision badge

    Well.. It took me 6 years
  11. Destruction

    Unknown ribbon

    Thanx, I was thinking about it, but the outer stripes are definitely white, not yellow/gold as it has to be on this cross. Also, it's 25 mm wide which is usual for old ribbons.... P.S. The ribbon was found attached to a wrong medal which is origin of Freikorps period.
  12. Hi Gents, Any idea which medal this ribbon belongs to ? 25 mm wide Best! Serg
  13. Destruction

    Latvia Partisan Badge

    Nope. Both are bad. It's a fantasy design based on Partisan Badge , with fake maker marks. Bercs and Mueller never used anything like that. Moreover, the original Partisan badge by Mueller has different design.
  14. Destruction

    Latvia Partisan Badge

    Hi Dave, It's a well known fake, discussed on many profile forums. It was sold in quantities some time ago while original badges are really scarce. But what make it an evident fake is the fact that a badge with the same design exists with 2 different maker marks Pls see this and compare.
  15. Hi Gents, Ok, I'll try to post some pictures, hope it will help. In the following posts I will discuss only 1st class crosses. 1. The obverse picture of Rossbach cross published in July 1943 in Der Reiter gen Osten newspaper, and the cross from my collection which IMO is a perfect match to it. Having in mind untypical set up which can be only met on some decorations produced in 20-ies, I'd say that we see here the 1st run of these crosses. 2. The obverse picture of Rossbach cross from Klietmann's book dated 1979, and the matching specimen from Hartung catalogue. Having in mind the rarity of this version , and also the set up, I'd suppose that we see the additional edition awarded in 1933. Honestly said, that's it. I've never seen any other 1st class crosses which have any provenance. Of course we can't exclude private purchase items, but they are a question of believe and proper hand inspection As for the cross in the beginning of the thread....ufff... personally I do not like it. First of all it carries the design of these suspicious items which Brian describes as produced in 50-ies and we used to consider fakes. Please find below one of them for comparison. What makes it even worse, having the design of later production, the set up of this cross is trying to imitate the early one (?). And last but not least--the source. Brian can tell us more about the seller, I will just mention that some of the fake Freikorps decorations from this person are really well made and are not serial/unique. And what a coincidence, just few months before he also sold one of these "50-ies made" items... Fake one.
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