Guest Rick Research Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 This little Moment In Time came in today, part of a huge bunch which I will be posting as they come up. Thanks to Gerd for spotting this!!! Here we have a PLASTIC medal bar mounting. I have seen these listed, and I have seen them in photos, but this is the first one to ever fall into my paws for hands on inspection.The ribbons--Order of Lenin and Order of the Red Banner which can only be February 1945 and November 1944 long service awards, respectively, then 1938 "Jubilee" (active duty since 1918), Victory Over Germany, and 1948 Armed Forces Jubilee could only have been worn for a few MONTHS, at best, before this officer received his second long service Red Banner for 30 years service in 1948. He would have known that second ORB was "in process" and could easily have made due with a normal bar or the individually worn method for those few months, but chose instead to lay out what must have been considerable cost for this. Maybe that is why it survived and wasn't thrown away as soon as it became outdated.Each PAINTED ribbon (on the bottom of the massive solid clear ?plexiglas material) is "overlapped" with a three dimensional effect adding depth as well as weight.Unlike the D profile solid clear plastic*** material painted ribbon bars of this period, backed crudely with brass and nasty poor quality wire pins, this has two massive screwbacks fitted with two washers each and aluminum (the earliest use of that metal I find-- normally first shows up on 1957 Leningrad Jubilee Medals, when original fittings aren't fiddled with) and a shiny non rusted bright silver smooth metal backing.This is an extremely "over-engineered" deluxe piece quite in conflict with the "Classless" Workers' Paradise.*** What, exactly, this clear plastic material actually IS, I do not know. I certainly remember as a child of the 1950s in the Affluent Capitalist U.S. when plastic began (remember "The Graduate?") to be introduced here in the 1960s. And I have no memory of anything LIKE clear plexiglas before... the 1970s HERE. Yet this was a Soviet style of construction by 1948, at latest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Here is a photo of an officer WEARING a plastic ribbons medal bar.It is quite a contrast with those officers who chose to keep wearing medals on individual mounts, and often seemed to not change dirty worn out ribbons (mixed in with clean new ones) as some sort of matter of pride or sentiment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Becker Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Wow. Its even more beatiful than i would have ever dreamed of. :food-smiley-004: How thick is the Plexiglass?What rank do you think, could the former owner have been? When Red-Banner AND Lenin are Long-Service awards, then was this already an old fellow in 45, right?If he chose to buy such an expensive medalbar for such a short period of time, then he must have been a poser too. Now to find a Lenin and a RedBanner, which belong together and restore the medalbar. You should start to save NOW! cheeky I am glad i could help a little. Gerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 The plastic is about 4mm thick on the left side and 5mm thick at each right side where it "overlaps" the next painted "ribbon."I would think probably a Colonel in some sort of support activity... imagine a Soviet officer with service 1918-1948 with NO medal bar awards for The Great Patriotic War!!!!! I have photos of a few, but none of them are wearing plastic.The ribbon bars this came with were quite nifty too-- several to the same recipient, and I love SETS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Becker Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Thats cool. jumping I already assumed so, when i saw them the first time.Let me think out loud....No Red-Star, because they were not instituted, when he had 15 years, no Combat Medal, because they weren?t Long-Service awards at that time.Active Duty since 1918.... so he would have had 20 years in 38, but gets his Red-Banner only in November 44? And his 25 years Lenin only in 45? Where is the mistake in my calculation?48 Jubilee Medal months before his 30 years ORB, that fits again. mmmh....Enlighten me, master Gerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Dunn Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 That is interesting Rick! They seem to have used plastic a lot for pinbacks and such. They do this to cut cost or problems in getting the correct material? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Gerd: They only used Orders and the MMM for long service between November 1944 and September 1957, so the first awards for Red Banner, Red Star, and Military Merit Medals as long service awards were made in November 1944. For whatever reason (maybe vecause they had processed about 100,000 Red banners in November!) the first Lenins for 25 were only handed out en masse in February 1945. Mike: the plastic worked great as "permanent" ribbons that never got dirty. But like much of Soviet life, while the FRONT looked great, the Dirty Secret was in BACK, where the construction is usually quite nasty. I just can't figure out what this stuff IS--it is fire-polished, really tough, and yet was apparently made soft enough so that things like huge ribbon bars are bent to fit on the wearer's uniform chest. And the labor involved to hand paint all these ribbons... I will post some of the "late plastic" ribbon bars in another new thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieC Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 (edited) Hello...I am a new member here. I was scanning the past threads and came across this one. This may be a bit late, but let it be my first contribution here. I do not know much about Soviet medals, only basics, but I thought this may be of interest in any case.Richie C Edited February 1, 2006 by RichieC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 Hi Richie, welcome to The Forum! Nice ribbon bar!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieC Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 Hello and thanks...The welcome is greatly appreciated. I'll be looking forward to both reading and posting.I specialize in pre-1945 Soviet & Royal Bulgarian uniform items and period photographs. Richie C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 That's an unusual one for a couple of reasons1) The wearer was a civilian rather than military, from this combination2) It is a late one, dating after the 1975 Victory Jubilee but before the 1978 Armed Forces Jubilee3) The spacers between each "ribbon" are gold rather than the "normal" black. I just got in another stripped (why? oh WHY?) bar-- this is the seller's scan, so will replace with a larger one when I get a breather from all the current Russian translatin' going on:This one is almost FLAT compared to the big thick 5 bar I started with above. There is still a "3-D" overlap on each medal, but not much, and the reverse is the nasty sort typical of ribbon bars. This one was obviously the top row of two. As the twisted wire that once held the first Valour Medal on shows, the only way to hang medals on this style of bar was to CUT their suspension rings. What an incredibly strange waste of time and effort (and no doubt expense) these were!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieC Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 What an incredibly strange waste of time and effort (and no doubt expense) these were!!!How ironic... Especially in a place where unneeded expense was and still is most often not an option...Thanks, I am pleased that my first post generated some interest. This piece has been sitting in my "do-dads" insignia box for years. I am glad to know a bit more about it. As a matter of fact, as I know not much about postwar medals, what ribbon facsimiles are there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 You've got the Military Merit Medal commonly MIS-named "Combat Service Medal," the 1970 Lenin Centenary Medal (which means he was doing something of note that year--these are far scarcer than the military version, though all are common), Defense of the Caucasus Medal; Victory Over Germany, 1965 Victory Jubilee, 1975 Victory Jubilee; 1968 Armed Forces Jubilee. The combination shows this soldier was out of the military before 1948, was not in any civil/State service that bestowed decorations or medals for long service after the war, and was just starting to accumulate the endless succession of "jubilee awards" which started in 1965. With this ribbon bar he would also have worn the 1970 Ministry of Defense Victory Jubilee Badge on his jacket lapel. Imagine going to the expense of this every 3 or 7 years one extra "still breathing" ribbon at a time!BTW, we REALLY enjoy old photos here-- if it CAN get a bit silly over haircuts on slow days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichieC Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 With this ribbon bar he would also have worn the 1970 Ministry of Defense Victory Jubilee Badge on his jacket lapel. ...for that free trolleybus or train ride, or that unforgettable weekend getaway at the Crimean sanitarium I would assume...I have many, many photos, and I would LOVE to share them. At times, they make textbooks seem less than their intended worth.I'll get a few lots together and post them here as time permits over the course of the next few days......and thanks for the info on the medal bar.Richie C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Thanks Richie, I'm sure we're all looking forward to much more! Again, welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Krause Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 dobro vecer dorogie drusya,just received this oddity, my first Soviet plastic ribbon bar: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Krause Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 better scan will come when I have my scanner working again...here the reverse: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 More vaseline over that scan, please!!! Well, I recognize what looks like an MMM at top left, and what appear to be 15 and 20 years service ribbons in the wrong positions to the right on the middle row, but the rest are Mysteries To Me.I suspect this is something from ANOTHER Communist country, with some common elements of Soviet design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudeman Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 More vaseline over that scan, please!!! Well, I recognize what looks like an MMM at top left, and what appear to be 15 and 20 years service ribbons in the wrong positions to the right on the middle row, but the rest are Mysteries To Me.I suspect this is something from ANOTHER Communist country, with some common elements of Soviet design.I think I need glasses. It is Soviet - the third from the left top row is for Valiant Labor and the next two grey ribbons are 30th and 40th anniversary of Armed forces. I think the only foreign one is the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 The colors and proportions are off, but I think I see a 1948 and 1958 in 4th and 5th position now... [attachmentid=25955]MMM 1st? yellow only on one side, mainly red with 2 white stripes?? this one is it was anything looks like a 1965 Jubilee to me, becuse "black" only on 1 side ?1948 as boxed1958 as boxed15 years service incorrectly ahead of the 2020 years service incorrecty behind the 15 (making that a 10 years MMM in 1st place)weird foreign ribbon.Daniel-- does that just "stab on" with nasty inward facing prongs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudeman Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 The colors and proportions are off, but I think I see a 1948 and 1958 in 4th and 5th position now... [attachmentid=25955]MMM 1st? yellow only on one side, mainly red with 2 white stripes?? this one is it was anything looks like a 1965 Jubilee to me, becuse "black" only on 1 side ?1948 as boxed1958 as boxed15 years service incorrectly ahead of the 2020 years service incorrecty behind the 15 (making that a 10 years MMM in 1st place)weird foreign ribbon.Daniel-- does that just "stab on" with nasty inward facing prongs? I believe #2 to be Victory over Japan and #3 to be Valiant Labor with a black aberration on the side caused by the scan or ribbon sliding(?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 My new Plastic Medal Bar courtesy of Alexei.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 And the reverse.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 Historically but aesthetically . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted April 2, 2006 Share Posted April 2, 2006 The enamel on the Bravery Medal has been replaced as well..... but I just could not resist, the price was fantastic and I did not have any example of the Moscow & K?nigsberg Medals in any other group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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