Victoria Cross grouping of mini medals

[sftrooper86]

Greetings Gentlemen,

I was wondering if anyone could assist me in researching this medal bar to find out who its origonal recipient was?

Thank you,

Vince

Edited October 16, 2006 by sftrooper86

[Ed_Haynes]

In many cases, the original "recipient" of such eBay-offered (?) miniature "groups" was the person who is selling it, who had the "group" made up to order and with the intent of resale after adding in a "story". Absent some very solid and reliable provenance, miniature groups, being both unnamed and easy to assemble "off the rack", seem to me to be very dubious collectables, especially when they include high-end items like a VC.

It is bad enough when some research goes into these assembled miniature groups, when some effort is made to represent a "famous chest", but such an invented group "representing" X's medals is usually passed off as "X's medals". Often, however, scant knowledge goes into the assembly, and the fakers just add pretty medals that strike their fancy.

[peter monahan]

Vince

Unfortunately, Ed is right. Unnamed minatures can be to whoever one wants them to be too, provided the accompanying story is good enough for the intended audience.

Not worth a lot of money, but if it has provenance (you know and trust the seller/owner, whose family has had it since...?) then an amusing puzzle to pursue.

This group has, as far as I can tell from the photo, what might be the badge of a Commander of the Order of St. John of Jerusalem after the VC, three WWI medals, George V's 1935 Silver Jubilee & George VI's 1937 Coronation and the St John of Jerusalem Service Medal. So: a VC won in WWI, the recipient still alive (but almost certainly not a soldier) as late as 1937. In addition he would have risen, if the two St. John's gongs are correct, fairly high up in that organization.

The Service Medal could be earned for "conspicicuos service to the [british] Grand Priory, and for 15 years efficient service in the st john's Ambulance Brigade." (H. Tapprel Dorling, Ribbons and Medals. Not clear to me whether or not the "and" in that quotation actually means "and / or".

The Commander's badge, if that's what it is would presumably be for even further distinguished service to the Brigade and Order. [i'm not up on these - the ribbon is correct for OofSJJ but the badge should be white and silver, not black. Maybe the light in the photo?] Not sure whether or not the grand Priory in GB could give you info. on possible recipients of this combination.

Again, assuming it's not just a fantasy group!.

For what it's worth!

peter

[sftrooper86]

Vince

Unfortunately, Ed is right. Unnamed minatures can be to whoever one wants them to be too, provided the accompanying story is good enough for the intended audience.

Not worth a lot of money, but if it has provenance (you know and trust the seller/owner, whose family has had it since...?) then an amusing puzzle to pursue.

This group has, as far as I can tell from the photo, what might be the badge of a Commander of the Order of St. John of Jerusalem after the VC, three WWI medals, George V's 1935 Silver Jubilee & George VI's 1937 Coronation and the St John of Jerusalem Service Medal. So: a VC won in WWI, the recipient still alive (but almost certainly not a soldier) as late as 1937. In addition he would have risen, if the two St. John's gongs are correct, fairly high up in that organization.

The Service Medal could be earned for "conspicicuos service to the [british] Grand Priory, and for 15 years efficient service in the st john's Ambulance Brigade." (H. Tapprel Dorling, Ribbons and Medals. Not clear to me whether or not the "and" in that quotation actually means "and / or".

The Commander's badge, if that's what it is would presumably be for even further distinguished service to the Brigade and Order. [i'm not up on these - the ribbon is correct for OofSJJ but the badge should be white and silver, not black. Maybe the light in the photo?] Not sure whether or not the grand Priory in GB could give you info. on possible recipients of this combination.

Again, assuming it's not just a fantasy group!.

For what it's worth!

peter

Thank you Gentlemen for the information,

I realize what you are saying about where items come from. The medal next to the VC is all silver in color and not white and silver. So who knows.

Thanks again!

Vince

[deptfordboy]

Yes, there is at least one numpty on Ebay who spends their time 're-creating' groups to famous fighter aces (Jonnie Johnson etc) right up to the likes of Monty. I personally treat mini groups with great caution, even when named.

Cheers

Gilbert

[Ed_Haynes]

Right, Gilbert. Unless from a good auction house or a 100% reputable dealer, they aren't worth a second look. DNW did have a nice "John Chard" miniature pair a few sales back, with good provenance.

[sftrooper86]

Yes, there is at least one numpty on Ebay who spends their time 're-creating' groups to famous fighter aces (Jonnie Johnson etc) right up to the likes of Monty. I personally treat mini groups with great caution, even when named.

Cheers

Gilbert

Hello Sir,

I definitly agree with you. Thank you! I was wondering what types of material can you expect to find used as backing material for a WW1, WW2 era mini medal bars?

Thank you again for your knowledge!

Vince