Metropolitan Police Dockyard Divisions

[Tom King]

I recently came across this photo of a Metropolitan Police Constable attached to one of the Dockyards . It is interesting to note the anchors on his Helmet Plate & Collar, there also appears to be another badge next to the anchor any ideas ???. It is circa 1911 to 1921 but my guess it is shortly before WW1. Can you tell which dockyard he is attached to ?

 

[Tom King]

close up

 

[Tom King]

close up

 

[Guest pikemedals]

hi i think the badge is for which dockyard in was in. i check up with police orders web site with his collar number. i came up with 6 names do you what to know them names. i will let you know. if you can tell which divison he was in. i can get the right officer

Edited September 9, 2004 by pikemedals

[Nick]

The badge on his collar (behind the anchor) I am sure denotes what division he is from.

Unfortunately I have no reference to what Division, had what badge.

Anyone else help

[John]

Well, the medal he is wearing is a 1911 coronation. And it looks quite new. So that should help narrow the odds down a bit.

[kpm]

This looks like him:-

PO Date Warrant First name Last name Rank Number Division Reason Effective Date

04/01/1917 91625 FRED HORSWILL PC 67 4th DISCIPLINARY

14/11/1906 91625 FRED HORSWILL PC 782 N To 67 4th 19/11/1906

1906-04-07 91625 FRED HORSWILL PC N PAY INCREASE

1907-04-06 91625 FRED HORSWILL PC 4th PAY INCREASE

1908-04-04 91625 FRED HORSWILL PC 4th PAY INC.

1909-04-03 91625 FRED HORSWILL PC 4th PAY INC.

1910-04-02 91625 FRED HORSWILL PC 4th PAY INCREASE

1911-04-01 91625 FRED HORSWILL PC 4th PAY INCREASE

1912-04-06 91625 FRED HORSWILL PC 4th PAY INCREASE

1913-04-05 91625 FRED HORSWILL PC 4th PAY INCREASE

1917-07-14 91625 FRED HORSWILL PC 4th PAY INCREASE

1922-11-24 91625 FRED HORSWILL PC 4th PAY INCREASE

27/03/1905 91625 FRED HORSWILL PC 782 N JOINED

31/03/1930 91625 FRED HORSWILL PC 67 4th PENSIONED 30/03/1930

Kpm

[Nick]

I have been reliably informed that the badge in question on the collar is a crown. All dockyard Constables and Sergeants had the fouled anchor and crown next to each other.

Mystery solved.

[Mike McLellan]

Hate to beat a dead horse, but isn’t that a King’s Police Medal he’s wearing? I tried to find particulars on P.C. Horswill’s career, but my computer skills are somewhat primitive. Anyway, it’s an old thread. 

Mike

Edited September 2 by Mike McLellan

[John]

Good spot, but I don’t think so. I just checked in JHF Kemp’s book and it shows the 1911 as sole entitlement. 

[Mike McLellan]

   John, I don’t doubt what you say, but that ribbon just doesn’t look like a coronation piece. 

[David68]

I'd have to agree with Mike on this. I'm no expert but the ribbon certainly surgests it's a Kings police medal which if I'm not mistaken came into being in 1909 so fits with the date.

The Coronation medal doesn't have the broad lines as the Kings medal.

 

[Odin Mk 3]

If it is a KPM the only man I can find who earned a KPM in a dockyard division was PC George Burton who won the KPM for rescuing a stoker from drowning at Portsmouth Dockyard (2nd Div) in Nov 1915 (KPM LG 1/1/1917).

However he would have also had the 1911 Coronation (Police) Medal and somehow I don't think that is him because I have seen an image with him at a presentation and I think he was more solidly built than this man.

[Mike McLellan]

  Gentlemen, after much reflection and inner turmoil, I must admit that my original hypothesis was totally without merit. It is, indeed, a 1911 coronation medal. 

    The photographer’s flash was of such a brilliance that the chemical composition of the blue stripes on the medal ribbon flouresced brightly and this bright reflection of light was captured on the photographers plate, reacting with the silver nitrate. The red portion of the ribbon, being of a somewhat different chemical makeup, did not reflect the light of the flash to any significant degree, so the red portion appears grey, as it should, while the blue stripes appear white, as in a burst of light. Examining different studio photos of policemen with their medals, one can see this same phenominum occurring quite frequently, especially with the 1902 medals, which appear grey with a single white stripe down the middle. In this particular case, the camera is not focused very sharply, and the slight blurriness exascerbates the allusion, making the blue stripes appear wider than they really are. 

Sorry to start this argument in the first place, but I’m old and it gets a little lonely out on the tundra, and I like to hear myself talk. I feel much better now. Thank you. 

Mike

Edited September 5 by Mike McLellan