dond Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 Women just don't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Hello! Austrians and germans in a "Sturmtrupp" exercise! "Sturmtruppenlehr-Kursus der D.S.A." (D.S.A. = Deutsche Süd-Armee) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 I recently picked up this great pic of the 7th SB, better said, the SturmAbteilung of the 7th Army before the SB was formed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 3, 2018 Author Share Posted December 3, 2018 This photo is noted as " Stoßtrupp at Cirey (Tanconville) Sept 1916" from the equipment it looks to be a "real" Sturm unit, not just one in name... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Hello! Do they have leather-patches on the trousers? Can you recognize the helmet-cover of the man walking before the horse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 3, 2018 Author Share Posted December 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, The Prussian said: Hello! Do they have leather-patches on the trousers? Can you recognize the helmet-cover of the man walking before the horse? Hi, I will check when I get home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 ? Great! By the way... I am home... But I wonder, why the card is writte with Stosstrupp and not Surm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 3, 2018 Author Share Posted December 3, 2018 HI, it comes from the group of a field veternarian, there were a bunch of photos he picked up in the area, but were not his unit. I am guessing he did not know the correct term, I assume it was the Sturm Bataillon attached to that Armeekorks... maybe Sturmbataillon 14? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 3, 2018 Author Share Posted December 3, 2018 Hi, the picklehaube have a number on them, impossible to read. September 16 is still extremely early for Sturmunits... In fact, it predates most units... I think at the time Rohr was traing specifically the Armee Abteilungs Gaede, Falkenhausen etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) I can´t see leather patches. Can you make a close-up of the helmet-number? Stormbataillonns were not attached to Armeekorps, but to armies. The fact, that we see a number on a helmet cover, could be a proof, it´s not a regular storm-bataillon. In that period of time the 19th Ers.Div. (Armee-Abteilung A) was in that area: Ersatz-Regiments 23, 32, 24, and 40. Ersatz-companies. 12th and 22nd Pi.Btl. 254th Pi.Comp. 88th Res.Pi.Comp. 60th Res.Inf.Rgt. 100th Ldw.Inf.Rgt. (until october) The helmet number could be a 100? Edited December 4, 2018 by The Prussian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 HI, "Stormbataillonns were not attached to Armeekorps, but to armies. " indeed, it developed that way mainly so from 1917, but in 1916, right up until the end of the year there were very different systems of organization, especially in this area. And after that the Divisional Sturm Units trained by Sturmbataillon were also not Army level. As far as the Musik Zug goes, I am guessing Assualt units did not always have a Musik Zug, it could very well be from the local Kommandanture. Leather pants may become symbolic for Sturm Units, but in 1916 early 1917 they seem to be real manglewaren and not often on Divisional level. Werner Lacoste's book "Deutsche Sturmbataillone 1915-18" covers it really well, Going through some end of 1916 SB Rohr Photos... leather trousers seem to be very much the exception in 1916 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) Hi Chris! Yes, you are right, but your focus was on Sturmbataillon, not divisionally Sturmabteilungen... The official Sturmbataillon for Armee-Abt. A was the bavarian Sturmbataillon 15, raised xmas 1916. Another fact is, that the Armee-Abt. A had 2 Lehr-Abteilungen with 60-80 men each. They teached the "Stosstrupps" of the regiments. Each regiment had 60-80 men in their Stosstrupps. Maybe your photo shows one of those? Edited December 4, 2018 by The Prussian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 9 minutes ago, The Prussian said: Hi Chris! Yes, you are right, but your focus was on Sturmbataillon, not divisionally Sturmabteilungen... The official Sturmbataillon for Armee-Abt. A was the bavarian Sturmbataillon 15, raised xmas 1916. Another fact is, that the Armee-Abt. A had 2 Lehr-Abteilungen with 60-80 men each. They teached the "Stosstrupps" of the regiments. Each regiment had 60-80 men in their Stosstrupps. Maybe your photo shows one of those? Hi, agreed, that may be why they have "Stostrupp " on the back. This is a month before units in the sector were officially designated "Sturmbataillon"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 probably solved, mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 5, 2018 Author Share Posted December 5, 2018 Here are some 1918 ones from the same album..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 They have leather-knees! Sturmbataillon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 1 hour ago, The Prussian said: They have leather-knees! Sturmbataillon! Hi, could be, but I have a number of photos of men not in a SB and having leather. The SB were not the first to have it ;-) However, I think you are correct. This was in Cirey area as well... for most of the war it was an area occupied by geriatrics... with some Assault units to prop them up... looking at the pics, these are not the old guys..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Yes, you won´t see leather-trousers on the western-front usually. Mostly they were worn by mountain troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyC Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Chris Boonzaier said: Hi, could be, but I have a number of photos of men not in a SB and having leather. The SB were not the first to have it ;-) Hi Chris and all, who apart from SB and mountain troops would be equipped with leather reinforced trousers? GreyC Edited December 8, 2018 by GreyC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 28 minutes ago, GreyC said: Hi Chris and all, who apart from SB and mountain troops would be equipped with leather reinforced trousers? GreyC I have seen regular Bavarian Infantry with leather, for some reason I have in the back of my head that it was a popular way of repairing pants, but then at some stage it was discouraged to save raw material. 3 minutes ago, Chris Boonzaier said: I have seen regular Bavarian Infantry with leather, for some reason I have in the back of my head that it was a popular way of repairing pants, but then at some stage it was discouraged to save raw material. Of course, the bavarians in the photos may have been in the Vogesen or Alps and serving in the mountains as opposed to being officially designated Gebirgs truppen. I will look today, but I think I also have pics of non SB assault troops wearing leather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Troops with mountain-uniforms were 26.1.1917: 9.Armee (LII.AK, 217.ID, parts of 89.ID, 218.ID, parts of bav. 12.ID) 11.Armee (Gren.Rgt.11, Garde-Jäger-Btl., Res.Inf.Rgt.21, Jg.Btl.9 and 12, Inf.Rgt.45, Res.Jg.Btl.11-13, 15, 19, Inf.Rgt.146, Schallmeßtrupp 4, Garde-Schützen-Btl. + units since 29.7.1918: Jg.Btl.8, Geb.Bttr.9, 14-16, 18, bav. Geb.Bttr.10, bav. Pi.Kp.106, Pi.Kp.201, Geb.MG-Abt. 210, 211, 214, 216, 217, 219, 220, 230, 231, Geb.MW-Kp. 171, 172, 176, Geb.Funker-Abt. 3-5, 9, 78, 79, Geb.Fernspr.Zug 814-816 14.Armee (all units) Armee-Abt. A (parts of bav. Pi.Kp.23, Funker-Abt. 6b) Armee-Abt. B (Infantry of 6.bav. Ldw.Div., parts of 7.Kav.Div., bav. San.Kp.3, 2./Fußart.Btl.2, MG-Abt. 201, 201 and 208, + units since 19.7.1918: Ul.Rgt.21, Ldw.Inf.Rgt. 38, 40 and 436, several Landsturm units) Armee-Abt. Scholtz (Geb.MG-Abt. 212, 213, 215, 222-225, 232, 233, 247-250, Geb.Pi.Kp.101, Geb.Funker-Abt.1, 6a and 7, Geb.Vers.Haub.Battr. 941, Geb.Fernsprech- and Signalzüge) Source: Kraus, vol. I, page 246 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 53 minutes ago, The Prussian said: Troops with mountain-uniforms were 26.1.1917: 9.Armee (LII.AK, 217.ID, parts of 89.ID, 218.ID, parts of bav. 12.ID) 11.Armee (Gren.Rgt.11, Garde-Jäger-Btl., Res.Inf.Rgt.21, Jg.Btl.9 and 12, Inf.Rgt.45, Res.Jg.Btl.11-13, 15, 19, Inf.Rgt.146, Schallmeßtrupp 4, Garde-Schützen-Btl. + units since 29.7.1918: Jg.Btl.8, Geb.Bttr.9, 14-16, 18, bav. Geb.Bttr.10, bav. Pi.Kp.106, Pi.Kp.201, Geb.MG-Abt. 210, 211, 214, 216, 217, 219, 220, 230, 231, Geb.MW-Kp. 171, 172, 176, Geb.Funker-Abt. 3-5, 9, 78, 79, Geb.Fernspr.Zug 814-816 14.Armee (all units) Armee-Abt. A (parts of bav. Pi.Kp.23, Funker-Abt. 6b) Armee-Abt. B (Infantry of 6.bav. Ldw.Div., parts of 7.Kav.Div., bav. San.Kp.3, 2./Fußart.Btl.2, MG-Abt. 201, 201 and 208, + units since 19.7.1918: Ul.Rgt.21, Ldw.Inf.Rgt. 38, 40 and 436, several Landsturm units) Armee-Abt. Scholtz (Geb.MG-Abt. 212, 213, 215, 222-225, 232, 233, 247-250, Geb.Pi.Kp.101, Geb.Funker-Abt.1, 6a and 7, Geb.Vers.Haub.Battr. 941, Geb.Fernsprech- and Signalzüge) Source: Kraus, vol. I, page 246 That is great, I have Kraus, but had not noticed that. Of course, it depends on availibility, like so much back then. I have many photos of mountain troops without leather, and pics of SB without leather.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 (edited) Kraus writes, that first the Alpenkorps was equipped with the "Gebirgshose". (17.8.11915). The Sturmbataillone recieved their leather-patched-trousers with ordre from 2.1.1917 (Kraus, vol. I, page 560). You wrote, a couple of photos were from 1918. In may 1918, the Gen.Kdo.59 was in the area of Cirey. In Sept./Nov. 1918 the Armee-Abteilung A was: VII.AK, XV.RK, Gen.Kdo.59, austrian IX.AK Units since 15.9.1918 13.ID (until 15.9.1918), 75.RD (7.10.-5.11.1918), 61.Ldw.Brig., 21.LD, 96.ID, 92.Res.Jg.Brig., 25.ID (18.-25.9.1918), 301.ID, 39.RD, hungarian 37.Honved-Div. What about a close-up of the helmet cover in #204, please? Edited December 8, 2018 by The Prussian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 8, 2018 Author Share Posted December 8, 2018 Well, I have been through my Leibregiment binder and SB binder.... of my late 1916 SB Rohr pics, less than half the guys have leather, on my Flammenwerfer pics (only 3) noone has leather, on my Leib Regt pics only 2 are wearing leather. I do not think we should underestimate supply problems, it is great to authorize Leather... but then you need supply it... and to a certain extent personal preference must have played a roll... especially of you are marching, marching and marching more in the mountains... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toot Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 i got a towel to catch the tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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