Yankee Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 HelloHere is a 4th class Bulgarian military Bravery Order. This particular badge is made from sterling silver, silver runs below enamel & there seems to be a pineapple design with two balls on either side. Can anybody shed some light where the badge was manufactured & who the maker was. I don't think it is a Bulgarian made piece. Any thoughts would be most appreciative.ThanksYankee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchBoy Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Hi Yankee, Your piece could have been manufactured by several makers. It seems to be a pre-WW1 model because most of those had the date 1915 on the front and the 1879 on the reverse, while you just have the 1879 date on the reverse.This narrows the makers down. When the award was first manufactured in 1880 it was done in Russia by the Keibel company. Between the 1880s and 1915 they were variously manufactured in Austro-Hungary, and France, so your piece is probably from one of those three countries. After 1915 they were manufactured in Austria, Germany, and later in Bulgaria itself. Hope this helps, (source: "Bulgarian Orders and Medals" byTodor Petrov (2005). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukasz Gaszewski Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 I guess many Bulgarian orders were manufactured by Firma Rothe in Vienna. Some pieces were also made by Johann Schwerdtner, also in Vienna.Lukasz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 Hi Yankee, Your piece could have been manufactured by several makers. It seems to be a pre-WW1 model because most of those had the date 1915 on the front and the 1879 on the reverse, while you just have the 1879 date on the reverse.This narrows the makers down. When the award was first manufactured in 1880 it was done in Russia by the Keibel company. Between the 1880s and 1915 they were variously manufactured in Austro-Hungary, and France, so your piece is probably from one of those three countries. After 1915 they were manufactured in Austria, Germany, and later in Bulgaria itself. Hope this helps, (source: "Bulgarian Orders and Medals" byTodor Petrov (2005).Hi DutchBoyThanks for the help, never thought possibility to be of Russian manufacture. Russia and Bulgaria had a special relationship that would explain why. Don't see too many Russian made pieces for other countries. I do have a French made one and it is very different then the one shown. So either Austro-Hungarian or Russian. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 I guess many Bulgarian orders were manufactured by Firma Rothe in Vienna. Some pieces were also made by Johann Schwerdtner, also in Vienna.LukaszHi LukaszThanks for the firms listed, I will try a 15 X loop and perhaps find a hallmark & maybe get lucky........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchBoy Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Yankee,I'm also not sure if your award is actually silver or just plated silver. Very often, Royal Bulgarian awards only came in solid silver for the top three classes only, the lower ones being made of tombac and are usually quite light in feel. Although, maybe on the earlier pieces they were silver. But if you don't find any mint marks maybe that would be why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 Yankee,I'm also not sure if your award is actually silver or just plated silver. Very often, Royal Bulgarian awards only came in solid silver for the top three classes only, the lower ones being made of tombac and are usually quite light in feel. Although, maybe on the earlier pieces they were silver. But if you don't find any mint marks maybe that would be why.Hi DutchBoyYou raise an excellent question. I feel fairly certain that this one is solid silver, the weight is heavy for its size and the quality is there. I have handled other early ones and they are as you say light and made of tombac. However I do have another one that is French made also in silver and that one does have a hallmark.SincerelyYankee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 Yankee,I'm also not sure if your award is actually silver or just plated silver. Very often, Royal Bulgarian awards only came in solid silver for the top three classes only, the lower ones being made of tombac and are usually quite light in feel. Although, maybe on the earlier pieces they were silver. But if you don't find any mint marks maybe that would be why.Hello againThere is no hallmark. The enamel is transparent exactly like the Austrian Leopold arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchBoy Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 (edited) It is definitely of superior quality! I'm not sure who made it, but enjoy it! Edited December 13, 2006 by DutchBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 It is definitely of superior quality! I'm not sure who made it, but enjoy it! Hi DutchBoyThanks for your help, I'll send out a scan of the French made one and that I safely can say know who the maker is, when awarded & to whom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor Ostapenko Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Ten years to this topic ! can you post best pictures ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Posted October 7, 2016 Author Share Posted October 7, 2016 Hi Igor Apologize for not zooming sooner. Given by Tsar Ferdinand to a Russian Officer on a state visit for the 25th year anniversary on the liberation of Bulgaria. It came in this case but I don't think it is right. Any idea the period of case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor Ostapenko Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Order like french made - see guilloche and swords . Do you can see some hallmarks on ring ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Posted October 7, 2016 Author Share Posted October 7, 2016 There is a lozenge stamped above the cross. It might be a Chobillon issue. I don't know of an Guilloche badge w/swds. If possible can you show it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor Ostapenko Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Sorry for my bad english guilloche - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilloché and swords like swords on your order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Posted October 7, 2016 Author Share Posted October 7, 2016 No worries. You have a good eye. I believe yours and mine are from the same jeweler. Have you any idea who manufactured them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor Ostapenko Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Sorry, no ... But I know - we can talk about Order For Bravery for 1885 year war http://www.slideshare.net/mishosm/ss-12836337 orders of colonel Vladimir Serafimov in museum "Военен орден „За храброст” ІV степен, 2 клас, аверс на Владимир Генов Серафимов, поручик от 10-и пехотен Родопски полк „за извънредна храброст и хладнокръвие против неприятеля през Сръбско-българската война от 1885 г. " I have two orders 1885 y. First in good condition order for 1912 (left) and order for 1885 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor Ostapenko Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 (edited) Second order for 1885 y. In my collection was in this medals group Order in bad condition From this medals group I take only order and serbian Mauzer bullet with discription 15/XI 1885 Edited October 7, 2016 by Igor Ostapenko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor Ostapenko Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Sorry for OFF-TOP , but we must have hier this order 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share Posted October 9, 2016 Sorry not getting back to you sooner in complementing you in your amazing bullet find, just never saw one turned into a pendant , lost electric from the hurricane and the system never loged me out automatically. Thank you for showing me those fotos of the 1885 Bravery Order issue. It looks fairly similar to the 1879 example that I have pictured in post 1. However post 1 has a pineapple like design over the three shaped mounds. As I recall it is an Austrian make but no hallmark. You have a very fine example of the Pour La Vertu Militaire. Never seen one in such fantastic condition with a portrait miniature of the recipient. Who is the Gentleman in the painting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor Ostapenko Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 4 hours ago, Yankee said: ... You have a very fine example of the Pour La Vertu Militaire... I have only PICTURES of fantastic order and I post hier these pictures becouse this order - father of bulgarian Order for Bravery . IMHO, orders 1885 was like 1880 models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor Ostapenko Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 few pictures - 1885 vs 1912 (1890) order 1885 - 38.7 mm , 1912 ( 1890?) - 39.5 mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor Ostapenko Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share Posted October 9, 2016 The bar in post 22 is incredible. Never seen a Balkan bar like that with a Saint George in the lead!!! Any idea what the eighth order is from left to right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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