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Paul L Murphy

Crimea Medal to French recipient

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One of my latest purchases is a British Crimea Medal, no bars, to a French recipient. The naming on the edge says "6357 PARIS AU 50 2 G". Can anyone shed some more light on what this means ? I am presuming 2 G refers to 2nd Grenadier Regiment or the like but it has me puzzled.

Cheers,

Paul

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Does nobody out there have an idea on this one ????

Hello Paul,

Haven't a clue (I thought most, if not all, French received unnamed ones ...) but have you contacted these people yet : http://www.crimeanwar.org/ ?

Good luck,

Hendrik

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One of my latest purchases is a British Crimea Medal, no bars, to a French recipient. The naming on the edge says "6357 PARIS AU 50 2 G". Can anyone shed some more light on what this means ? I am presuming 2 G refers to 2nd Grenadier Regiment or the like but it has me puzzled.

Cheers,

Paul

Paris may be his surname (not an uncommon one in France: http://nom-de-famille.linternaute.com/nom/166910/paris.shtml ), and Au the first letters of his christian name (Auguste).

The 2e Grenadiers were in the Division de la Garde Imp?riale, 2e Brigade, Corps d'arm?e de reserve.

This site gives several recipients: http://www.military-photos.com/orient.htm

Perhaps the 50 is a company number?

Edited by Michael Johnson

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Hello,

About this Crimea medal attributed to : 6357 PARIS AU 50 2 G.

I have already noticed these attributions to the 50?me de ligne :

50 3613 ( ) E A. FORTANE Bar S?bastopol

PITOT AU 50 4773 Bars Alma - Inkermann - S?bastopol

(50th Infantry Regiment in Crimea : Battle of Alma, battle of Inkermann, siege of Sebastopol (incl. March 1855, 15th to 18th and 21st, 22nd 23rd), capture of Mamelon Vert, battle of Traktir, capture of Malakoff).

Known Crimea Medals attributed to the 2?me Grenadiers de la garde :

Gde Ile R. Blanchier 2e Gers Bar S?bastopol

Gde Ile X. Dutter 2e Gers Bars Alma - Balaklava - Inkermann - S?bastopol

( LEBOURLOUT P. 2 DE L G ) No bar

MAUGEAN 2E G G I Bar S?bastopol

F. MERCIER II ME G RS Bar S?bastopol

PERNODAT. 2. G. DE. LA. GARDE. IMP. 2805 No bar

RISCHMANN A. 2E GRD IMP GDS No bar

Regards

Cussonneau

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Time to bring up this old post.

Not mine but fellow collector from other forum is looking information, what the naming on the Crimean medal "P ASSOLENT A II 18 DE" can mean?

And my own questions - does French Crimean War Medal exist as well and in this case maybe someone can post it up please?

Regrds,

Timo

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Time to bring up this old post.

Not mine but fellow collector from other forum is looking information, what the naming on the Crimean medal "P ASSOLENT A II 18 DE" can mean?

And my own questions - does French Crimean War Medal exist as well and in this case maybe someone can post it up please?

Regrds,

Timo

No French official Crimeas produced. They were awarded British medals I have seen French copies of the Baltic and British Crimea medal usually on slightly thinner flans.

Paul

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In our family, we also have a Crimea medal belonging to a ancestor of ours, that fought at the Siege of Savastapol, but his name unfortunately isn't inscribed on the medal. I also have a number of Naval documents pertaining to this man, that I,m trying to get translated from the old French language, with added military lingo from that time period. The one i'm most anxious to have transcribed is the personal papers of this man. It lists the ships he sail on, something pertaining to Sevastapol along with other events that made up the life of this man, up until the time he came to Newfoundland, Canada and, as they, jumped ship in 1857. Amy help in my quest would be appreciated.

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Hello Paul

Following the very constructive information given by Cussonneau, I would translate the naming on your medal as follows :

6357 (regimental number matricule in French) PARIS (surname) au (with the, a member of) 50 (50e (fiftieth) regiment d'infanterie de ligne) 2 (2e compagnie) Gr (grenadier which would mean he was a "grenadier", a veteran elite soldier in that regiment) or ( a member of the 2e Compagnie de grenadiers, an elite company in the regiment if it existed).

Your medal was probably owned by Grenadier Paris, matricule 6357, de la 2e compagnie du 50e Regiment d'infanterie de ligne.

Naming on those Crimean medals by the French was mostly an individual initiative.

As Cussonneau has shown with the medals know to the 2nd Regiment de Grenadiers de la Garde Impériale, their G and most often GR is always immediately after the number of the regiment, which makes sense. This I can confirm from other medals to both the 1st and 3rd Regiments de Grenadiers de la Garde Imperiale. In most cases Garde Imperiale is mentioned.

The 50th Regiment of infantery of the line was present in Crimea.

Privates in those regiments were known eithers as "grenadiers" or "voltigeurs" or "sapeurs" according to their employ.

I hope this makes sense to you. All these named Crimean medals are interesting.

Best regards

Veteran

Edited by Veteran

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this is the front and back view. the object next to the medal is suspose to be a musket ball that was removed from his body

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I´m in search of another french crimea medal I´ve got 16 years ago in Cambridge, it´s named to a: "C. LORDIERE 10e de L. 6332", in capital where I put it...I´m searching and has a 10e de Ligne in the Division du General Dulac in the assault to the Malakoff, Sebatopol, "The assault columns were marshalled from the 6th to 7th September (Histoire: 365 to 366): MacMahon was to attack the Malakoff; La Motte Rouge the curtain wall and batteries flanking the Malakoff; Dulac the Petit Redan; Lavaillant the Central Bastion; D'Autemarre the Bastion du Mat. The Imperial Guard were to be held in reserve to strike the decisive blow (Bezancourt: 444)." -But the medal comes with the Sebastopol Bar, only-

(and 3rd Division:General Dulac: 17th Chasseurs; 10th, 57th, 61st, 85th Line; Reserve: Chasseurs of the Imperial Guard; 52nd and 73rd Line),

As I´ve not see any Lanciers reg. at Crimea OOB, so, It must be "Ligne"

What do you think about......

Thanks

Miguel

Edited by hipnos

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Hello hipnos

You ar quite right. This man's régiment is the 10th Regiment d'infanterie de ligne, frequently shortenned to "de ligne".

All these named medals are fascinating. The French were very appreciative of the British Crimea Medal (known as "Médaille de S.M. la Reine d'Angleterre") since no true campaign medal had ever been issued to French troups to be worn (the Medaille de Saint-Helene was a different proposition).

The French were also very taken by the naming on the campaign medals they had seen worn by the British. This explains why a large number of the Crimean medals given them were privately named. This was continued by a smaller number of French military when the first true french campaigh medal was issued for the war against Austria in support of the Sardinians.

It seems, on the other hand, that the British Crimea medal issued to Sardinian troups were officially named by the Sardinian authorities. This remains to be clearly proved, but a number of these medals named to Sardinian troups from various regiments have an identical naming style.

Best regards

Veteran

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Hello

Right it's infantry "de ligne" not a lancier.

For French soldiers bars are loose on ribbon.

When a medal come from family or framed we find good claps.

But as soon as a medal arrives to a French collector or dealer the first thing that he made is to remove claps.

It's usual as that for some english collectors to throw away the old silk ribbons to put in their modern place of hideous ribbon in rayon.

Your medal for this regiment is quite rare.

Liverpool sold another one in 2008 named "5537 j. fricotet 10 de l"

And I have in my collection "GUYON . CHARLES . 10 . LIGNE" withour bar

Sincerely

Cuss

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Thanks to all of you.... :)

MIguel

PS/ Je suis a voitre disposition si vous avez besoin d´images o quelque chose...

Merci beaucoup

Miguel

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Hello at all,

in a german photo album I find this interesting photo. In that album were also some photos from Russia but the most photos came from the territory Bavaria.

Could this guy be a foreign legionnaire?? In my opinion he´s wearing:

médaille militaire (Modèle du 2nd Empire 1852 - 1870 ?)

Crimea Medal ?? (near the ribbon ring, you can recognize some stripes!)

Could he really be a high decorated Crimea veteran??

Best wishes

Karsten

P.S.: The photo was taken in Würzburg

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Hello Leutwein

You are right to think that this picture is a French soldier of sort. The Medaille militaire he is wearing is distinctly IInd Empire (1851-1870), which also means he is a non-commissionned officer or a ranker.

The second medal looks more like one of the French campaign medals of the same period (probably Italy, but it could also be China or Mexican campaigns, the ribbon is too difficult to make out); The British Crimea medal is a larger one with a very distinctive ribbon attachment which is missing on this picture.

Hard to say if he was a Foreign Legionnaire, but I rather doubt it.

Hope this helps.

Veteran

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Hello Veteran,

thanks a lot for your comment. I thought he could be a legionnaire, because the photo came from a german photo album and the photo was taken in Würzburg (Bavaria)....

....far away from France.

But interesting to read that it could be also a campaign medal for Italy or China/Mexico.

Pity that there is no unique solution. :(

Best wishes

Karsten

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Hello Karsten

Your remark about this picture having been taken in Germany is interesting. Could he have been a 1870/1871 prisonner of war detained in Germany and photographed there ?

Regards:

Veteran

Edited by Veteran

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Could he have been a 1870/1871 prisonner of war detained in Germany and photographed there ?

Hello,

this could also be a possibility. In my opinion he looks very french but no idea if he´s french.

May be some uniform-experts could say something?

Best wishes

Karsten

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