Armored Prussian Knight

[Guest Brian von Etzel]

This is the son of Capitein v. Klingsporn who was a painted in 1765. So giving his son, the man pictured here, time to grow up, I figure this is sometime right around 1800. His name is not on the back of the painting so that we can read it but we know he is a von Klingsporn. Any help would be appreciated.

I can't upload photos but does anyone have a Prussian Rangliste to 1800???

If it helps, he is the son of Julius Rudolf von Klingsporn who was the 987th recipeint of the Pour le Merite in Aug. 1788.

I'm sure the picture would help...

Thanks much.

Edited July 6, 2005 by Brian von Etzel

[Guest Brian von Etzel]

This is his father who I thought was Julius, Oberst and Kommandur des Regts. Goetzen z.F.

Although the painting states his 1765 assignment.

Hopefully, we have some serious early Prussian history buffs here.

Edited July 6, 2005 by Brian von Etzel

[Stogieman]

Welcome to the Forum Brian! Uniforms, I cannot help with, but just a thought... The Morris Ruhl Plates? Have you checked in there at all?

[Wild Card]

Hi Brian -

The best I can find may or may not be helpful. I can go back only to 1837. The Prussian

rank list for that year lists a Lt. Baron von Klingspor in the 3rd Curassier Regt. and a Lt.

Baron von Klingspor in the 1st Leib Hussar Regt. The key here, of course is the spelling

of the name - Klingsporn without the ?n?.

Maybe there is no connection, On the other hand, in view of how many of these families

were dedicated to the king?s service for generations, maybe there is.

One other thing. In vol. I, on page 141, of his work on the PLM, Bill Hamelman lists Julius

von Klingsporn (with an ?n? !!) ?Commander of the Goetzen Infantry Regiment? as the 63rd recipient under Friedrich Wilhelm II. Date of award is between 21 August and 1 September

1788.

There it is, for what it?s worth. Good luck on your quest.

Wild Card

[Guest Brian von Etzel]

1837.

Lt. Baron von Klingspor in the 3rd Curassier Regt.

Lt. Baron von Klingspor in the 1st Leib Hussar Regt.

The key here, of course is the spelling of the name - Klingsporn without the ?n?.

Wild Card

←

Yes Julius is one of these two and I believe the grandfather on the bottom.

The "n" was indeed dropped but exactly when is not known, or why. This is very helpful, so thank you. This is something new!

Hello here Rick, never heard of the The Morris Ruhl Plates, I'll look into this and track a copy down.

Edited July 6, 2005 by Brian von Etzel

[Guest Brian von Etzel]

Since you went to 1835, here's now the next son or grandfather. His son was a vet of the 1866 and 1870 wars and won the EKII in 1870.

And, he was indeed wearing the 3rd Curassier Regt uniform.

Is the other listed Klingspor his father or brother...?

I was hoping some of the older books might list more biographical information especially since the second from the top won the PlM... We know nothing of his other sons, nor even his son's first name.

Edited July 6, 2005 by Brian von Etzel

[Ralph A]

You found us. Welcome aboard!

[Guest Brian von Etzel]

You found us.  Welcome aboard!

←

Gordon invited me several months ago but I was involved in a new job, doing research by brain-dumping my mother, going through a thousand photographs from WWI, duh... At one point my grandmother had placed photos into envelopes with Eastern front town names on each envelope. The contents had been shuffled however and the work undone. BUT, many of the photos had dates and names of towns, then matching places from the photos, and finally, all but a small number re-ordered. That took months. Now I have to get motivated to scan each one and create a show... If only I had nothing else to do.

[Guest Rick Research]

I'd say from the wig, lapels, and no collar at all stock (neck lace) the first scan is from the same 1765 generation or BEFORE more than 1800. The CUFFS seem to be of the same 1765 style-- and note the exact same method of wearing the breastplate.

The fact that he is wearing his breastplate UNDER his coat and not on TOP of it strikes me as not cavalry, but a prudent if old fashioned infantry or other foot officer just like the 1765 portrait.

[Guest Brian von Etzel]

Now that you mention this, I am now convinced it's the first scan who is Julius Rudolf von Klingsporn the PlM recipient from 1788. Capitein is an indication of cavalary. The PlM recipient was from the Regts. Goetzen z.F. z.F.!!! Sometimes it just takes a little talking out loud with some observations like your Infantry observation to make it clear and to figure out the obvious. The second grandfather just looks more like the wild and dashing type of guy who would have won the PlM. At least that's the way I always pictured him...

His PlM must have come for whatever contribution he made in the Dutch Campaign of 1787. Of that 'Campaign' I can find next to nothing.

Edited July 11, 2005 by Brian von Etzel