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On 8/9/2014 at 16:19, Peter J said:

 

On 8/11/2014 at 01:17, Wild Card said:

Gentlemen,

 

Thank you all for your kind comments regarding my little St. Michael cross. Yes, it represents a knight’s 1st class cross, which, as Saschaw( :beer: ) points out, was awarded from 1837-1887. A full size cross is shown below.

 

I agree with Beau Newman that at such times Jörg Nimmergut’s magnum opus can be very useful… but Saschaw’s warning of errors must be heeded. Aside from that, Iwould add that Georg Schreiber’s “Die Bayerischen Orden und Ehrenzeichen” (printed in 1964) is helpful.

 

Thank you all again.

 

Wild Card

 

post-226-0-36670600-1407737791.jpg

/orden/bayern2.html

Early version in its original box, made by jeweler Edouard Quellhorst.

 

 

3643x3643_56cdc01daebcd.jpg

2932x2932_56cdc01e24a2c.jpg

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This arrived recently.  It's interesting.  It includes a rather rare Silver Medal of the Karl Friedrich Order named to "PAGENSTECHER", an enlisted award.  It also has a 20 year Prussian Reserve Officer's Cross and a 1914 Iron Cross.  Since it is a reverse mounting, the 2 Baden awards are both placed behind the Prussian awards.  Unless this has been played with (always a possibility) it appears that the recipient served in a Baden unit in the Franco-Prussian War and served in the Prussian Army later in life into WWI.  I looked for Pagenstechers in the 1914 Rank List and found a few.  The only one that looked like a possibility was a Dr. Pagenstecher who was a medical officer in the Landwehr Inspectorate in Braunschweig.  If anyone has the 1870/71 rolls for the Karl Friedrich Medal, I would be interested to see if a Pagenstecher appears.

BadenMinisA.JPG

BadenMinisB.JPG

BadenMinisC.JPG

BadenMinisD.JPG

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10 hours ago, Beau Newman said:

This arrived recently.  It's interesting.  It includes a rather rare Silver Medal of the Karl Friedrich Order named to "PAGENSTECHER", an enlisted award.  It also has a 20 year Prussian Reserve Officer's Cross and a 1914 Iron Cross.  Since it is a reverse mounting, the 2 Baden awards are both placed behind the Prussian awards.  Unless this has been played with (always a possibility) it appears that the recipient served in a Baden unit in the Franco-Prussian War and served in the Prussian Army later in life into WWI.  I looked for Pagenstechers in the 1914 Rank List and found a few.  The only one that looked like a possibility was a Dr. Pagenstecher who was a medical officer in the Landwehr Inspectorate in Braunschweig.  If anyone has the 1870/71 rolls for the Karl Friedrich Medal, I would be interested to see if a Pagenstecher appears.

BadenMinisA.JPG

BadenMinisB.JPG

BadenMinisC.JPG

BadenMinisD.JPG

Pagenstecher Vizefeldwebel im Leib Gren Rgt, silberne Medaille am 04.03.1871 

in Anerkennung hervortretender Tapferkeit und ausgezeichneter Leistung während

des weiteren Verlaufs des gegenwärtigen Krieges.

Regards
Andreas 

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Good morning from Riyadh,

I have strayed from my comfort zone of Arabic awards and purchased what I believe to be an attractive set of late 19th century German (Prussian /German Empire) miniatures - no doubt a slippery slope. From my limited knowledge I would suggest that the group may be that of an enlisted man rather than an officer. Any thoughts?

Kind regards, Owain

 

German Miniatures Obverse.jpg

German Miniatures Reverse.jpg

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It appears that he saw military service in the 1864 War with Denmark and the 1870 War with France.  After that, he was likely a civil servant with a long career as the 1st 2 medals were primarily civil service type awards.

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Thanks Beau & Andreas,

From my limited research this group then consists of:

  • Prussia Merit Cross
  • Prussia Merit Medal
  • Prussia Army 12 year Service Medal
  • 1870/1 Franco-Prussian War Medal
  • 1864  War with Denmark medal
  • 1897 Wilhelm I Centenary Medal 

Kind regards,

Owain

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Hi Alex, Point taken, but why do you have concerns (please elaborate a little), and why would the gilded badge make no sense - yes, it was never instituted, but as I understand things you do find period items beeing gilded? I understand some of these can be tricky, but if faked you'd normally see them in quite large quantities on eBay and similar sites, these I have not seen in many many years.

Regards, Lars

Edited by larsb001

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Because thre is no navy air gunnar badge. This is a mythos.

Both badges are from the same design. If something doesn't comes up often, not makes it to an original.

Kind regards

Alex

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OK, I understand there's no air gunners badge, this I already wrote, but that's one of the things you often see when talking miniatures, I understand they are from the same producer, this is obvious, but that doesn't make them not period. When I have them in my hands and compare them to other pins there's nothing telling me they are not period. So I believe we can agree in disagreeing. If anybody else would have any proof of these not beeing period I'd be happy to listen.  

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If you have something that doesn't exist, how you call this?

When do you thing was the gilded made?

Are this minis made of silver?

Kind regards

Alex

 

 

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2 hours ago, jaba1914 said:

If you have something that doesn't exist, how you call this?

A: An interesting variation, I have many examples in my collection!

When do you thing was the gilded made?

A: Seems to be an nice old fire gilding!

Are this minis made of silver?

A: No, and so what, a very large number of miniatures is not made of the same metal as the original!

 

Remember, when speaking miniatures everything is possible! In respect of beeing period or not I would certainly buy an argument like "we know these were produced by xxx in the late 1970ies" or "the gilding is a shiny modern one never used during that period" or "these are some of the Hungarian fakes that can be had in large quantities on eBay" or similar! I would not buy an argument like "you have two made by the same producer" or "it's gilded and it should not be". But you are entitled to your opinion, you don't believe in them and that's it, I do ;o)

Regards, Lars

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