Lippe Detmold Unpublished Award Rolls 1869-1918

[Guest Rick Research]

Sorry, no glitzy topic scan to start this one off, since all I have is a War Merit Cross on a medal bar and what I do NOT have rolls for-- because there AREN'T any are the

1914-18 War Honor Cross for Heroic Deeds, 1914-18 War Merit Crosses, and 1914-1918 War Merit Medals. There was also NO roll apparently for the Lifesaving Medals, and I sure wish there were rolls for those contested succession medals!

What I DO have are the complete Rolls for

The Lippe-Detmold Order of the Honor Cross (House Order) 1869-1918

The Leopold Order, Crosses, and Medals

The Merit Medals (Gold and Silver)

The Silver Civil Merit Medal on ribbon aka "Paulinen Medal" (horror of horrors, these go back to 1817!!! )

The Bertha Order, Ladies' Merit Cross, and Ladies' Merit Medals

The Lippe Rose Order for Arts and Sciences and

The Veterans Association Merit Cross

(transcriptions for EVERYTHING completed 13 April)

NEW Rolls added (thanks to Solomon April 2007) =

Military Merit Medal 1832-1915 (That is the type without swords on the obverse of the medal)

1905 "lawsuit" Commemorative Medal

(transcription completed 22 April)

I will leave the House Order for last and may just start there from 1 January 1900 on. Haven't made up my mind yet. It might be a Two Volume Project and am not sure my poor fingers can take that much typing, so I may leave that for younger eyes. I'll have to wait and see how it goes.

Since FULL birth dates and places are almost always given from 1905 on in The Most Wonderful Rolls Ever Kept, it will be VERY "easy" to sort out the inevitable multiple Johann Schmidts and Wilhelm M?llers to combine notes on holders of multiple awards.

That should make Solomon happy, anyway!

Now if only I could dictate the typing and the computomasheen would DO that!

[Deruelle]

Good news Rick. MAy be this ribbon bar will be ID.

Regards

Christophe

[Guest Rick Research]

I think so, possibly. Not from the War Merit Cross, or unfortunately from the Succession Medal (I do wish there were rolls for both the 1897 and 1905 versions!!!!) but from the House Order X and... no other awards. It'll be a process of elimination.

[Guest Rick Research]

Finished the LIPPE ROSE Order today.

Baron Franckenstein, an ample-bosomed Southern Belle from Nashville, certain otherwise collector renowned Herrn Eug?ne Godet and Dr Georg Epstein, musicians, singers, photographers, and furniture dealers with the occasional editor/publisher tossed in ("Huntin' News" and so on).

Why, even the Court Magician makes an appearance--though one wonders whether his talent was considered "art" or "science."

[Guest Rick Research]

The Kriegerverein Crosses are QUITE an interesting bunch, including serving officers.

Unfortunately the three pages 1916-1918 were written in "war ink" that has evaporated away-- it was breathed on about as thick as spider webs to begin with and the copies of those pages are also too dark in the centers where the pages divide, so there are a number of Unreadable Parts there. This is an "improved" version of one section:

and yes, I can actually read MOST of those!

One problem is that Lippites from the Planet Lippexos-9 were NOT German-speaking. Weird weird names. Places ending in endless -trups and -dissens and littered with letter x's. Brakelbrokelbrinxenuflendonopgo-gos.

[Red Eagle]

Can you tell me the complet award list for the Leopold-Order 2nd Cl. (Model 1910)?

Are some restitutions recorded?

Regards

Red

[Guest Rick Research]

The Leopold Orders roll is done, but not in a format I can transfer here, since column settings do not hold in our posting space.

The Leopolds are very hard for me to divide up into those constant design changes because the pages were originally set up for the ORIGINAL classes, then altered with notations "with Crown" and "without crown" and FINALLY show as "1st Class," "2nd Class," and "3rd Class" BUT the notations ON the pages show

"Grosskreuz" in the "1. Klasse" roll 1910-1917 AND "1. Klasse" 1917-18

"2. Klasse mit der Krone" 1909-1916 AND "2. Klasse" 1916-1918

"3. Klasse ohne Krone" 1908-1918

which does NOT match up with the times for design changes. So entirely different designs are listed as "1" "2" and "3" that actually have no relation to each other.

I can pluck out awards made between specific DATES, I can't for the life of me figure out WHICH design is supposed to be WHICh on the Rolls.

So tell me what DAY/MONTH/YEAR you mean as a STARTING date. Obviously 1909 awards cannot be M1910 insignia, but there are 1910 bestowals from January, February, and May and then none again until January 1911.

I don't know what you mean by "restitutions." Do you mean Orders that were returned after the recipient died or was promoted to a higher class?

Yes, returns are listed.

[Red Eagle]

Sorry, yes I mean the returns.

The Leopold-Order with Crown (2nd Class, Model 1910-1916) must be awarded 12 times between 2. June 1910 to 15. February 1916.

The first of this class must be awarded at 2. June 1910 to Major v. Dewall.

Regards

Red

Edited February 6, 2007 by Red Eagle

[Solomon]

One problem is that Lippites from the Planet Lippexos-9 were NOT German-speaking. Weird weird names. Places ending in endless -trups and -dissens and littered with letter x's. Brakelbrokelbrinxenuflendonopgo-gos.

Oh, when finished I?ll be very happy

The weird names are not as complicated at it looks like...but there is a small problem.

They listed towns that are now quarters of bigger towns -example: "Donop" is now a quarter of "Blomberg" (Blomberg-Donop).

The example of Blomberg in the south of Lippe is quite good. There live only 17.000 people, but the small town contains of 18 quarters

The same problem can be found in other towns of Lippe.

At your scan of the list of the Kriegervereinskreuz you can find another example: "Sch?tmar" and "Salzuflen".

Sch?tmar now belongs to Salzuflen...

Quite a hard job...I feel with you!

Here is a small help. The link shows all (and really all) small towns of Lippe. There you can compare the names -> LINK

By the way...in the list of the Lippische Rose there are some really interesting entries, or not?

When look at the first entry of the 2nd class, you?ll find "Karl Langenscheidt"...his dictionaries are still produced.

One example of such a dictionary is actually helping me to write this answer

But my favorite is entry no. 33 (Rose 2nd class)...it?s my avatar

Greetings

Solomon

Edited February 6, 2007 by Solomon

[Guest Rick Research]

von Dewall received his Order "2. mit Krone" on 2 MAY 1910-- so does that make his the M1910 or the earlier one?

He was number 11 on that roll:

11) Hans von Dewall Major F?rstl Fl?gel Adjutant Detmold, geboren Minden iW 14.12.1866, received on 2.5.10.

After him to 1916:

12) Georg B?xenstein Buchdruckereibesitzer u Geheimer-Kommerzienrat Berlin, geboren Berlin 13.12.1857, received 27.1.11

13) Oberstleutnant Hermann von Buchka, Kommandeur J?ger Bn 7, geboren Rostock 1.1.1859, received 22.3.11 but returned 25.8.19 (he died 10.1.18)

14) Adolf Jandorf Grosskaufmann u Kgl Kommerzienrat Berlin, geboren Hingsfeld W?rttemberg 7.2.1870, received 8.8.11

15) Georg Epstein (former publisher of the Ordens Almanach and eventually VON Epstein) Dr.phil. Professor Berlin-Wilmersdorf, geboren Breslau 20.3.1874, received 30.1.12. No notation for return but he later received the Leopold 1. (and Rose 2.)

16) Henri Marteau Lehrer Kgl Hochschule f?r Musik zu Berlin KP Professor Berlin, geboren Reims, Frankreich 31.3.1874, received 2.6.12.

17) Max Rabes Professor u Maler Berlin-Charlottenburg, geboren Samler Prov Posen 17.4.1868, received 14.12.12.

18) Karl Adolf Freiherr von der Horst KP Kammerherr Regierungsrat, Mitglied KP Handelsamt, Rittergutsbesitzer Berlin, geboren Schloss Hollwinkel Kreis L?bbeck 6.6.1870, received 20.2.13.

19) Solomon Marx Oldenburgischer Konsul aD Bankier Berlin-Gr?newald, geboren Schwerte Kr H?rde 29.5.1866, received 21.2.13.

20) Hans Kiewning Dr.phil. Geheimer Archivrat Detmold (my heeeeeero ), geboren K?nigsberg 20.8.1864, received 25.10.13.

21) Theodor Simon Hofm?belfabrikant KP Handelsrichter Hauptmann dR Berlin, geboren Berlin 20.5.1873, received 15.2.16. He had previously received Leopold 3. and also got Rose 1. and 2.

22) Emil von Scheibler Grossgrundbesitzer Halle a/S, geboren Lodz 3.1.1870, received 15.2.16.

BUT

23) Professor Dr. Conrad Bornhak, Amtgerichtsrat aD Berlin, geboren Nordhausen 21.3.1861 is ALSO shown getting "2. Klasse mit der Krone" 3.7.16

So you see why I am confused about the numbers that are SUPPOSED to have been awarded for each type? The ROLL does not agree!!!

Oh yes, VERY interesting Roses--

yours is one of only two with "stage names." I don't know why she thought "Lilli Walleni" was better on a poster than "Lilli geb. Wallenthin Strandberg."

Best of all, every class of every award I do, I cross check with each other, so Krigervereinkreuz groups with Leopold Verdienstkreuz etc etc etc.

[Solomon]

yours is one of only two with "stage names." I don't know why she thought "Lilli Walleni" was better on a poster than "Lilli geb. Wallenthin Strandberg."

Because nobody would write "geb. Wallenthin Strandberg" on a poster.

Translation of the abbrevation "geb.": ...born as...

Her real name was: Lilly Sanna Klara Strandberg, born as Lilly Sanna Klara Wallenthin /stage-name Lilly Walleni

Lilly Walleni sounds much better

Greetings

Solomon

[Guest Rick Research]

Thanks for the link to the Tiny Little Places where Alien Not-German Lippites settled when they came from their Faraway Home Planet!

A lot of the Weird Places are written so small that everything looks like nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn with the ink bled together.

Unless they are SUPPOSED to say nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

[Red Eagle]

@Rick

Thank you very much for the informations. The last recipient (No. 23) must awarded with the Model 1916. Model 1916 must be awarded since May 1916.

The Model 1910 must be made since May 1910. Dewall will be received the first piece what Godet made, with a small needle. There is a photo of his Order in Schwark?s book. Up to 1913 was Godet made the Mod. 1910 for 25 times. Once at time the needle was made a little bit wider.

Regards

Red

[Guest Rick Research]

Well, as I say-- the ROLLS do not agree with the summary of numbers and types which I assume everybody (but me) has from the recent Lippe awards book. But Bornhak is shown as receiving the "2nd Class with Crown" while everyone AFTER him shows "2nd Class."

[Guest Rick Research]

1 Here as a one time example is the transcription of the complete Roll for all grades of the Lippe Rose, as arranged in the original roll. See comments at the end of #8. If this data is copied and re-posted, please give me (Richard Lundstr?m) credit for my work, which is NOT finished or final. I am sure there will be additional data added, which is what will make the printed Rolls MORE useful than a simple transcription.

[Guest Rick Research]

2

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3

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4

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5

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6

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7

[Guest Rick Research]

8 last page of Roses roll

this is my WORKING list, from which information is added and added and added. Don't pay attention to typing errors at this point. Anything in (data) has been added by me, if comments do not have () or have "data" that is as found on the rolls. George added information on Anhalt's Arts & Sciences awards from a roll which did not survive to reach me. The numbers at far right are those of each line on the exceptionally wonderful Lippe Rolls and will not appear in the final book version. "@" is just so I can more easily find awards to women as I work.

[Guest Rick Research]

Christophe: I've finished all medal-bar class awards with Swords for WW1, and your 4 ribbon bar is going to need the roll for the 1905 Thronanspruch medal. There are about 20 possibles in 4aX and 4bX combined.

[Deruelle]

Hi Rick,

Many thanks. Do you thinkd that this roll exist in Lippe's Archive ? I try to write next week.

Regards

Christophe

[webr55]

Good work, Rick!