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Just a wild guess to the guards badge. Is it possible, that the soviets made his 3rd Army honorably a Guards Army and pinned him the badge on his jacket?

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That's a good theory, and may be correct. However, it's a little odd though as his staff was decorated in June 1945 during the en masse awardings of Soviet awards all across the US-Soviet lines. Waiting till September would be a bit strange, but it is possible (odder things have happened).

Dave

Dave,

Your sense was absolutely correct and my theory was wrong. According to an entry in GEN Patton's diary, he was presented with the Order of Kutuzov 1st Class, serial number 58, on 14 May 1945 by MSU Tolbukhin, Commander, 3rd Ukrainian Front. The presentation occurred in a chateau that formerly belonged to Emperor Franz Josef of Austria. Patton noted that "He (Tolbukhin) was a very inferior man and sweated profusely at all time." GEN Patton's other observations concerning the Russians on that day are definitely worth the read.

Source: The Patton Papers, Volume Two, 1940-1945, George Smith Patton and Martin Blumenson, c. 1998, p. 712.

Regards,

slava1stclass

Edited by slava1stclass

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According to an entry in GEN Patton's diary, he was presented with the Order of Kutuzov 1st Class, serial number 58, on 14 May 1945 by MSU Tolbukhin, Commander, 3rd Ukrainian Front. The presentation occurred in a chateau that formerly belonged to Emperor Franz Josef of Austria. Patton noted that "He (Tolbukhin) was a very inferior man and sweated profusely at all time." GEN Patton's other observations concerning the Russians on that day are definitelty worth the read.

Oooooooh! Good stuff slava1stclass! Thanks for posting it!!! (I've got to get a copy of that section, or even the book!) :jumping:

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Just a wild guess to the guards badge. Is it possible, that the soviets made his 3rd Army honorably a Guards Army and pinned him the badge on his jacket?

That is one of the best theories I could think of. It would make the most sense!

slava1stclass,

Thanks for the clarification! Awesome information! Is there anything in his diary about the Guards badge?

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Just a wild guess to the guards badge. Is it possible, that the soviets made his 3rd Army honorably a Guards Army and pinned him the badge on his jacket?

Good one, Gerd. I vaguely remember that this theory had also been advanced in of of those JOMSA articles on Patton's awards, maybe with some evidence. It would then raise the interesting (though soon made moot by the politics of the "Cold War") as to whether all soldiers of the 3rd Army could wear guards' badges or just their commander?

Need to dig through my back issues of the JOMSA. At present, their organization is limited.

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slava1stclass,

Thanks for the clarification! Awesome information! Is there anything in his diary about the Guards badge?

Paul R,

Unfortunately, GEN Patton makes no reference to having been awarded the Guards Badge in the excerpt I cited.

Regards,

slava1stclass

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Thanks for looking. That is a bummer. I bet that it is recorded... somewhere!

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Good one, Gerd. I vaguely remember that this theory had also been advanced in of of those JOMSA articles on Patton's awards, maybe with some evidence. It would then raise the interesting (though soon made moot by the politics of the "Cold War") as to whether all soldiers of the 3rd Army could wear guards' badges or just their commander?

Need to dig through my back issues of the JOMSA. At present, their organization is limited.

I have actually seen a certificate for a Guards badge to an individual US soldier. Unfortunately since that hasn't been within the scope of my research, I haven't concentrated on that, nor do I know where in the tens of thousands of jpgs on my two hdds that pic might be! :speechless: My theory, from what I've seen from US veterans, is that they were individually awarded the Guards badge, and not awarded en masse to an entire unit. I've never seen any documentation to support that, but we're all still learning. Below is a picture of BGen Woolfley, who was the 76th Infantry Division, wearing his one Soviet award, the Guards badge.

Dave

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I have actually seen a certificate for a Guards badge to an individual US soldier. Unfortunately since that hasn't been within the scope of my research, I haven't concentrated on that, nor do I know where in the tens of thousands of jpgs on my two hdds that pic might be! :speechless: My theory, from what I've seen from US veterans, is that they were individually awarded the Guards badge, and not awarded en masse to an entire unit. I've never seen any documentation to support that, but we're all still learning. Below is a picture of BGen Woolfley, who was the 76th Infantry Division, wearing his one Soviet award, the Guards badge.

Dave

Hi Dave,

Very cool! :jumping::jumping: I wonder how long such awardees went on wearing these before quietly putting them away in a drawer somewhere. :unsure: Plus, unless they'd gotten the screwbacks replaced with pins or something I'm assuming that whatever tunic they'd worn it on had to be retired and a new one purchased due to the screwback hole. ;)

Gents... this is getting really good and with the above is rising above my hopes for this thread. I'd rather hoped it wouldn't be limited to Patton but would indeed pull some pics and other info on other U.S. recipients of Soviet awards, badges, etc., out of the woodwork. And learning more about those that Patton was awarded is terrific! :jumping:

Keep up the great work as I for one an thoroughly enjoying this one! :beer:

Dan :cheers:

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Very cool! :jumping::jumping: I wonder how long such awardees went on wearing these before quietly putting them away in a drawer somewhere. :unsure: Plus, unless they'd gotten the screwbacks replaced with pins or something I'm assuming that whatever tunic they'd worn it on had to be retired and a new one purchased due to the screwback hole. ;)

Most of the vets that I talked to who received screwback awards either 1) never wore them or 2) rarely ever wore them. I never encountered one who actually wore his award on a regular basis (though unfortunately my sample size was admittedly rather small... it's tough to find surviving vets when you only have a few hundred to choose from!) Part of the reason they didn't wear their awards was because it was mostly due to the fact that they'd have to poke holes in their uniforms, or if the award was a hanging one, they couldn't mount it with their other US awards.

There were two "en masse" awardings of Soviet awards, both happened immediately following the War, with the first one in May/June 1945 amongst Army troops on the Soviet frontlines. These awards were rarely documented by the dispersing Soviet unit, or if they were documented, the documents aren't findable in the Archives (though some are, so conspiracy theorists take note!) The most common of these awards to Army troops consisted of the OGPW1, with 38 documented cases of this being awarded. Other awards frequently given out were the OGPW2 (24 awards documented) and the Red Star (10 awards documented). (Please note that I say "documented"... this means that the instances of the decoration's awarding has been documented either in the soldier's/officer's biography or by their unit history or the Russian MOD Archive listing. I estimate that there may have been upwards of 3 times as many decorations bestowed, particularly that of the Red Star, that weren't documented in sources that I have had access to.)

So, the Army guys received their awards. The units which received these awards included the 1st, 3rd, 9th and 15th Armies; 5th, 7th 12th, 13th and 18th through 22nd Corps; the 2nd, 4th, 8th, 11th and 13th Armored Divisions and the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 9th, 26th, 29th, 30th, 45th, 65th, 69th, 71st, 76th, 80th, 82nd, 84th, 102nd and 104th Infantry and Airborne Divisions. Other units may have been represented, however I have not been able to find other awardings through sources available to me. All this to say that the Army fellows who received their awards rarely ever wore them, save for while in theater. One vet that I interviewed recalled wearing his OGPW2 (he was a full Colonel when he received it) for the rest of the time he was in theater, and only removed it when he returned to the US. Another veteran that I interviewed received a Nevsky and though he didn't remember wearing it, his family loaned me a fantastic photo of him wearing it in his Ike jacket while on Occupation duty.

After the War, however, the awards were rarely worn, mostly due to the difficulty of pinning them through material. In the case of the Suvorov 2nd to MG Terry de la Mesa Allen, the CG of the 104th Infantry Division, he converted it to clutchback for wear after the War. However, that was the exception rather than the rule. I often found that the vets would wear the ribbon for the award on their ribbons, but sometimes didn't wear that, mostly due to the fact that it was difficult to purchase during the Cold War (duh!) Some people have proposed conspiratorial theories that veterans might have been "afraid' of wearing their awards due to the "Red Scare" in the 1950s. That was a question that I asked every veteran that I interviewed and not a single one told me that they even considered that as a factor to wear or not to wear their awards. One veteran did tell me though that in 1949, he packed his award up and returned it to the Soviet Embassy because he couldn't in good conscience keep an award from an enemy state!

The other en masse awarding was that to Navy personnel by an Ukaz dated in July 1945, wherein the Soviets produced a by-name list of USN, USNR, USCG and USCGR personnel and awarded decorations to these personnel. These awardings were made by mail to officers (all of them recalled receiving in the mail without fanfare) or via a local awards ceremony to enlisted personnel. Why the difference, I don't know, but that's what the vets told me. Of the recipients of these awards, I only found one veteran who actually wore the decoration after the War (he was enlisted) but the majority of recipients never touched theirs or removed them from their fancy issue boxes (which were really neat to handle - absolutely mint, unworn awards!)

Hope that sheds a bit of light on to who wore or didn't wear them.

Dave

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Thanks Dave! :beer: Terrific info and a great report! :jumping::jumping:

Can't wait to see more pics if anyone digs any up.

Dan :cheers:

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Dan,

Here is a Medal of Honor winner who was also awarded the Order of the Patriotic War Second Class. The citation for his Medal of Honor follows.

Regards,

slava1stclass

SLATON, JAMES DANIEL

Corporal, U.S. Army

Company K, 157th Infantry Regiment, 45th Infantry Division

Date of Action: September 23, 1943

Citation:

The Medal of Honor is presented to James Daniel Slaton, Corporal, U.S. Army, for conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of life above and beyond the call of duty while serving with Company K, 157th Infantry Regiment, 45th Infantry Division, in action with the enemy in the vicinity of Oliveto, Italy, on 23 September 1943. Corporal Slaton was lead scout of an infantry squad which had been committed to a flank to knock out enemy resistance which had succeeded in pinning two attacking platoons to the ground. Working ahead of his squad, Corporal Slaton crept upon an enemy machinegun nest and, assaulting it with his bayonet, succeeded in killing the gunner. When his bayonet stuck, he detached it from the rifle and killed another gunner with rifle fire. At that time he was fired upon by a machinegun to his immediate left. Corporal Slaton then moved over open ground under constant fire to within throwing distance, and on his second try scored a direct hit on the second enemy machinegun nest, killing two enemy gunners. At that time a third machinegun fired on him 100 yards to his front, and Corporal Slaton killed both of these enemy gunners with rifle fire. As a result of Corporal Slaton's heroic action in immobilizing three enemy machinegun nests with bayonet, grenade, and rifle fire, the two rifle platoons which were receiving heavy casualties from enemy fire were enabled to withdraw to covered positions and again take the initiative. Corporal Slaton withdrew under mortar fire on order of his platoon leader at dusk that evening. The heroic actions of Corporal Slaton were far above and beyond the call of duty and are worthy of emulation.

General Order No. 44, May 30, 1944

Born: 4/2/1912 at Laurel, Mississippi

Home Town: Gulfport, Mississippi

Edited by slava1stclass

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Quite a group! Both OPW and MM.

You tease us, Dave, with goodies from your forthcoming JOMSA piece. Can't wait!! :jumping:

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slava1stclass posts an interesting photo. This photo I had in my "archives" and it had been posted on another forum (the WAF) a few years back. When I started writing the article, I really wanted to use the photo, but without being able to track down who posted it, I didn't want to use it without attribution. So I asked the original poster, and he had no idea where it had come from. At the time, we didn't know who it was either. Through a thread now about a year ago on the WAF, we were able to make a positive ID on him, but I still had no attribution as to where the photo came from. I contacted the 45th Infantry Division Museum (a great one, BTW!) and they had never seen the photo before. But, they were really excited to get it for their files, and added it to Slaton's information. I then requested said photo from the Museum, which they were happy to allow me to use for the article, and thus it is referenced to them. Academically proper? I'm not certain, but the image eventually ended up in the hands of the right people who were more than happy to get it for their MOH display. I would love to find out who/where this photo actually came from, so if anyone has any leads....

I loved the photo because of both the early MOH, his OGPW2 and the British MM. Interestingly, I have no record of Soviet awards given to members of the 45th Infantry Division, other than this award to Slaton. This might be because of the limited records accessable for National Guard officers, and I simply haven't run across the notations in their bios yet. In my communications with the museum, they didn't know of any Soviet awards given to members of the 45th either. Rather odd... that's one that needs a little more research. Slaton may also have received one of the handful of awards given out as reciprocal awards for the ones we gave Soviet soldiers through our Military Mission, Moscow (MMM). The 1944 awards given to Eisenhower, Bradley and others were a case in point of this reciprocity. However, I have yet to track down an Ukaz which lists the people who these awards were given to. (You think it's hard to sometimes research Soviet groups... try researching Soviet awards to AMERICANS in the Archives! Oy!)

On an unrelated topic, here's the picture I mentioned before of my good friend (the late) Colonel John Wohner, who received both the Nevsky and the British DSO as a young (very, very young) Lieutenant Colonel during the War. This photo is courtesy of his family. Here he is, obviously in a daily type of uniform (note the shoulder holster for his .45) but wearing the Nevsky.

Dave

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Hi all,

Many thanks to Dave and slava1stclass for those terrific pics!!!! :jumping::jumping: Geez... it still seems sooooooo odd seeing guys in U.S. uniform... especially an MOH awardee, wearing Soviet awards... especially the OGPW as the H&S is soooo prominent in the design. And with all the post war red scares and all... just gives me the shivers. Don't get me wrong... I think it's neat and very cool that they were awarded to our guys and that they (at least for a time) were able to wear them. But just seems like a situation out of the Twilight Zone or something whenever I try to wrap my mind about it.

I guess that's one of the best things about this thread, is getting to learn and see about more such examples than just Patton. What would be even better would be being able to acquire and own a piece or group that had been awarded to a U.S. serviceman. To me that would be a real prize!

Again thanks so much to all for adding so much to this thread. Hope it keeps going for quite some time and that alot more is uncovered and discovered along the way. :beer:

Dan :cheers:

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Many thanks to Dave and slava1stclass for those terrific pics!!!! :jumping::jumping: Geez... it still seems sooooooo odd seeing guys in U.S. uniform... especially an MOH awardee, wearing Soviet awards... especially the OGPW as the H&S is soooo prominent in the design. And with all the post war red scares and all... just gives me the shivers. Don't get me wrong... I think it's neat and very cool that they were awarded to our guys and that they (at least for a time) were able to wear them. But just seems like a situation out of the Twilight Zone or something whenever I try to wrap my mind about it.

I guess that's one of the best things about this thread, is getting to learn and see about more such examples than just Patton. What would be even better would be being able to acquire and own a piece or group that had been awarded to a U.S. serviceman. To me that would be a real prize!

Incidentally, the few officers who actually did wear their Soviet awards after the War wore them all the way through to retirement. One of these men retired as a three star general, who regularly wore the ribbon for the OGPW2 on all of his ribbon racks. I don't know if many of us are historically adept enough to make a real "call" on the "red scare" of the 1950s, but it too seemed strange to me that the veterans who I talked to had no issue with the Soviet awards during that time period. As I understood it, they were awards given by another allied power... even if that power wasn't still an ally, they were at one time (save for the exception of the one fellow who sent his award back!)

As far as collecting these, I have the only "complete" (medal + documents) that I am aware of. I estimated in my article that there were around 700 Soviet awards given out. The majority of these were unfortunately undocumented, or their documentation was extremely limited at best. The majority of veterans I interviewed who received their awards in Europe never received a document with the award, and of the documents that people did recieve, it was typically a single typewritten page, very plain and very much without fanfare. Awards to Navy personnel were luckier, as they came with the proper order or medal book, along with the "coupon" book for the recipient's stipend! (Also accompanying that was a letter from the Navy instructing them that they were forbidden to accept the stipend, but they could still keep the book as a momento.)

I was lucky enough to either finger or get photos/photocopies of groups that belonged to veterans or that were still in the hands of their families (one was promised me his OGPW2 if his kids didn't want it...I offered him $1000 cash for it, but he wouldn't take my offer on it) Unfortunately, many more of the awards were missing. The Nevsky to Col Wohner (in the photo I posted earlier) was lost, and he had a really bad copy to replace it (horrid copy, in fact!) The three star I mentioned above also lost his OGPW, and two retired Major Generals that had both been awarded the Medal For Military Merit had lost them! (In one occasion, I actually talked to his wife on the phone as she dug through a shoebox of her husband's medals! Wow would I have loved to have been there!)

This leads up to why these are particularly rare. First, the only really documented awards (with the exception of the extremely limited and high-end awards given out in 1944 and early 1945 via the embassy to senior generals, and perhaps MOH recpients, etc.) were the Navy ones. The Army awards from Europe had so little documentation to where were the piece of paper misplaced, that award would no longer be documented. Most of the Army vets I talked to really didn't put too much interest into their awards, so yes, the documents were mostly lost. What does this mean? Well, when their awards are sold by the families, the Soviet awards simply become another "unresearched" award, and unless someone invests the money to research an OGPW, FV or MM (all received by US troops) they'll probably never find them. So, as far as documented awards are concerned, the Navy ones were the only really formally documented ones, but even with that there were less than 200 awards made, so but a small handful!

The other reason these are rare is because the majority of the recipients were quite senior in rank when they recieved them. Go figure, if a unit was contacted by a Soviet liason officer and they were told that the Soviets were going to give out "X number" of awards to members of that unit, who do you think was going to show up for the ceremony? Duh... That's why a lot of these awards went to senior staff officers. (A rare occurance was with the 102nd Infantry Division, where they were asked by the Soviets to supply bodies from various ranks to receive awards specific to that rank...) These senior staff officers were typically older and thus passed on earlier than the more junior troops. What does this mean? Unless the family took pains to keep everything together, the medals are probably now not just with the kids, but the grandkids and chances are that as the years go by more and more pieces of the medals go to the four winds. Especially considering that these "odd foreign awards" aren't from this country anyway, so what do they really mean? (Heard that before...)

Anyway, if you do find one of these awards out there, jump on it quick! They are definately as rare as hen's teeth and if I get word of them, I am offering a considerable bounty for them (A LOT - depending on documentation PLUS a finder's fee) and chances are I'll snap it up. :P

It's a fascinating search! I've spent many many hours over the past several years tracking these vets and their families down and have had a great time doing it. Unfortunately, even some of the vets interviewed for my article are now gone sadly :( so these guys keep decreasing literally by the month....

Dave

Edited by NavyFCO

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Gents,

  This image is from a set of 15 photographs currently for sale on the well-known auction site.  They depict a reciprocal award ceremony and reception involving the United States Army 80th Infantry Division and an unknown Soviet unit in Liezen, Austria in mid-May 1945.

  In this image MG Horace L. McBride, Commanding General, 80th Infantry Division, is seen wearing both the Order of Aleksandr Nevskiy and an unknown class of the Order of the Patriotic War on his uniform jacket's right pocket flap.  The unidentified Soviet Major General wears the Legion of Merit in the degree of Legionnaire (confirmed via a separate photograph) although it is difficult to discern in this image.

Regards,

slava1stclass

OAN and OPW.jpg

Edited by slava1stclass

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I am so glad this topic got refreshed, I have photos of all of the Patton's awards on display at the Museum at Fort Knox so if you'd like to see them, please let me know! 

 

As for the Order of Kutuzov 1st Class, here you go! :D 

 

23871172697_b2fff4f8c1_z.jpg

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