PKeating Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 (edited) Good responses on the FSS. I also noticed a distinct difference between the forward slashes at the top of the known, original documents, on the line for the issue number, and that on the Linde FSS. The Linde FSS also appears to have strange fading patterns. Compare it to Hummel's very worn and faded example: with Hummel's document, you can see a uniformity of colour through the cloth material, desite the wear. Maybe the strange appearance of the Linde document is due to a trick of the light or the scanner but it is off-putting. I do find the use of the Roman 'S' for "SS" a bit odd on a document issued through the SS-F?hrungs-Hauptamt. That is one office building where every clerk's typewriter would have had a sigrunen key! The Brigadef?hrer's signature is fairly convincing but the "Berlin" on the Ort (District) line looks very strange indeed, as if someone were trying to ape German handwriting and consequently writing too slowly and carefully, with disappointing results. Maybe the Linde FSS is genuine but as I said, I would need to examine it physically before making up my mind. Maybe I'm just paranoid. The point is that, as with other stuff, one has to be so careful these days.One of the worst cases I have on file is that of an original parachute requsition chit filled out by the Spie? of 4./SS-Fallschirmj?ger-Btl 500 for a training jump. It was sold on an auction site and I got there too late. It resurfaced sometime later...with a totally false officer's countersignature and stamp on the bottom righthand corner, added by the total c**t who had purchased it on eBay and then offered on the same site again before offering it to me privately for a large sum of money. He also added a fake unit stamp over the genuine signature of the Spie?, Pichler, who is still alive and who headed the veterans' association for many years after the war. The 'improved' document is the one on the top while the rather blurry image I captured from the original auction sale is the unaltered document. The only captains in the unit at the time were the CO, the legal officer and one of the doctors. The company commanders were all lieutenants. In any case, the name bears no resemblance whatsoever to that of any officer with SS-FJ-Btl 500 at any time. Of course, neither our erstwhile forger nor the vast majority of people have access to this information and I am, frankly, in two minds about including it in my book. While it would serve as an aid to potential collectors of such documents, it would without any doubt also help the forgers. While fakery and forgery is heinous, this is actually far worse. This is vandalism of a wonderful, rare, original document, which is now totally devalued as a result of this bonehead's greed and desperation to make a few extra bucks. I think I would probably break the guy's fingers one by one if I ever got a chance.PK Edited March 1, 2007 by PKeating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKeating Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Just for interest's sake, the Spie? who signed the chit, August Pichler, is the guy between the two Luftwaffe parachute jump instructors wearing the RZ16 parachute with the Irvin-style quick-release buckle. The SS-Fallschirmj?ger around them wear RZ20 parachutes. A couple of veterans' accounts refer to the ancient aeroplanes. This early Heinkel He111 attests to the shortage of Ju52s for training purposes. They did jump from Ju52s when they could get them but otherwise, planes like this, and a few Italian Savoia-Marchetti tri-motors piloted by loyalist Italian crews, were all they had to work with. Some training jumps were carried out from Fiesler Storch light aircraft, with the jumpers riding on the undercarriage. This snapshot was taken sometime during the period in which the chit was filled out. PK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmut Von Moltke Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Speaking of Walter Hummel's Soldbuch, it also ended up on pg 248 of 'Soldiers of the Waffen-SS - Many Nations, One Motto' by Marc Rikmenspoel. The well known photo taken at Neustrelitz is listed as being taken on the Volkstrauertag (Remembrance Day) by Paul Hausser in pg 476 of 'Wenn Alle Bruder Schweigen', though.K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKeating Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Can you scan and post that page of Marc Rikmanspoel's book? I haven't seen it yet but I gather that Hummel's real soldbuch and some award documents are out there somewhere. PK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmut Von Moltke Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Sorry, I don't have a scanner, the caption says 'A page from Walter Hummel's soldbuch, showing him qualifications as a trained paratrooper.'Rikmenspoel's book can be seen on the publishing site J.J Fedorowicz http://www.jjfpub.mb.ca/photo_albums.htm#Waffen_SS or certain types of model or specialist stores, where I bought my copy.Regards,KOn another note, it would be nice to see 'Fallschirmj?ger der Waffen-SS in Bild' re-printed by the Nation-Europa-Verlag, as they did with other Munin-Verlag 'in Bild' titles, or Mr. Agte's book on the SS-FJ-Btl. 500/600 translated into English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Fascinating posts guys. I am a complete amateur on this , but still find it very interesting. I have a couple of FJ 'bits', ie FJ lid (Normandy Cam), Gravity knife, a couple of badges etc., which maybe I could put on... Paddy, you sure you didn't serve in WW2 FJ??!! Regards, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKeating Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 No, but I jumped with their sons and grandsons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lumsden Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 No, but I jumped with their sons and grandsons...Now......there's a citation to be proud of! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 No, but I jumped with their sons and grandsons...I agree with Robin! That is one heck of an accomplishment!! Can you show us your badge?Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKeating Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 These are the wings they awarded us. Note the Assmann logo on the reverse. Of course, we wore embroidered versions on our smocks. PK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKeating Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 The good news for today is that I'm beginning to think this FSS might be original. That's the effect the fakers and bent dealers have on our hobby. They render us cautious to the point of paranoia. Of course, this image isn't good enough by itself but there is another known original FSS, part of a grouping, that looks very like this one. I still think certain things look odd about it but other things appear spot-on.You can never be too careful...PK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejay Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 I should add that I was unable to give a definitive opinion based on the scan of the Linde FSS. There are a number of things about it that concern me but nothing that couldn't perhaps be explained away should the FSS turn out to be perfectly genuine. Put it this way: I would need to be able to examine it before opening my chequebook. Anyway, let's see what you can spot.PKHi Prosper,Great thread! Very surprising the criminal minded go this far for the quick buck. Among other things I noticed different the green markings show the most obvious to me. They should be exactly the same as they are of the same press and as you commented the same stack of licences looking at the number. Clearly they are not but stil very convincing to untrained eyes. Thanks for your expertise!Dirk J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmut Von Moltke Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Paddy/Prosper,About Antonio Munoz's 'Forgotten Legions' book which you mentioned here in reference to unethical dealers who have read it, most of the photographs are from the Munin-Verlag, and a large proportion were published in 20 photograph section (the photograph at the botton on pg 478 left out as it shows Luftwaffe FJ) on the SS-FJ-Btl. 500/600 between 476 and 485 of 'Wenn Alle Bruder Schweigen', which was originally published by the MV-Verlag. Although the text is quite detailed. Although from what I have read in the introduction so far (I have just purchased it) it seems to get into those Skorzeny myths again! I'm also curious if you know a certain photograph of 2 Waffen-SS paratroopers, one without a helmet and holding an MG-42, behind a Panzer IV? It appeared in pg 551 of 'Wenn Alle Bruder Schweigen' and I'm curious about the statement of a Wehrmacht-Heer Feldwebel who took the photograph, wrote the caption and sent it for the book which was - ... and on July 29, 1944, I took this photo at the bend of the river Memel at Kauen, of two SS soldiers who passed by my tank after a hard fighting withdrawal. I should think that they belonged to a paratroop unit which had resisted until their unit was wiped out. At that time anyway, we had great respect for these men, which, as far as I am concerned, has not changed.About Mr Walter Hummel there is another photograph of him on pg 249 of the mentioned book by Marc Rikmenspoel. The caption is - Walter Hummel on home leave in 1944. He wears the Luftwaffe Parachutist's Badge next to his Iron Cross I and Wound Badge. He still has the cuff-title from his parent unit Deutschland.K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxos Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Hello Prosper,excellent documents and a great post. Die Schreibmaschine ging kaput and they had to use there top secret Zeitmaschine to get another one from the future. This document is proof that the nazis used ailien technologies.Hardy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxos Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 I'm also curious if you know a certain photograph of 2 Waffen-SS paratroopers, one without a helmet and holding an MG-42, behind a Panzer IV? It appeared in pg 551 of 'Wenn Alle Bruder Schweigen' and I'm curious about the statement of a Wehrmacht-Heer Feldwebel who took the photograph, wrote the caption and sent it for the book which was - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKeating Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 I know the photo. I have an old print of it somewhere in my files. One of the paras is carrying his M38 in his hand and an MG42 slung over his shoulder. The other has his helmet pushed back on his head. They both look exhausted and very hot and bothered. I don't know if the caption in the Munoz book is reliable. The Munoz book is certainly an indispensable addition to any serious library but where the SS-FJ are concerned, I remember some of the former officers and NCOs having a rather negative view of some of it. That said, there will always be veterans who dislike a book or a movie about a unit in which they served or a battle in which they fought. I think Siegfried Milius considered Munoz to have been very impertinent in writing about Herr Milius' emotions etcetera...PK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxos Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 How about Para- and Luftwaffe Ground Combat Badges on SA Feldherrnhalle uniformshttp://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7345...=feldherrnhalleHardy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKeating Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 (edited) Interesting that they're in K?nitz. Probably not relevant but the depot unit for the SS-Jagdverb?nde and the SS-Fallschirmj?ger-Btl was located, nominally at any rate, in K?nitz, as the page from this paybook shows.PK Edited April 21, 2007 by PKeating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxos Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Gerhard Huber was my father - he was wounded in Dec 43 near Shitomir (he was in the Stabskompanie Fallschirm-Pionier Bataillon 2). After Recuperation and Genesungsurlaub (leave) he reported to the Fallschirmj?ger-Genesungs-Bataillon in Aschersleben from there they sent my father to Konitz as an Ausbilder (Instructor). He and other Paratroopers were joined by WH NCOs to train volunteers for Sprungeinsatz and Nahkampf. Everybody (incl. the volunteers) wore SA uniforms during this. His duty there lasted from March to April 44. After Konitz he was send to the 1./Fsch.Pz.Jg.Abt.1 in Italy. There is no entry of his time at Konitz in his Soldbuch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxos Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Interesting that they're in K?nitz. Probably not relevant but the depot unit for the SS-Jagdverb?nde and the SS-Fallschirmj?ger-Btl was located, nominally at any rate, in K?nitz, as the page from this paybook shows.PKDo you know when the SS-Fallschirmj?ger were trained for parachuting and where?Hardy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKeating Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Sure! SS-FJ-Btl 500 underwent parachute training at the Mataruska Banja aerodrome near the Serbian town of Kraljevo under the auspices of instructors from Fallschirmschule III. In other words, Fallschirmschule III was based in Kraljevo and used the neighbouring airfield. They moved to Papa, the Hungarian airborne base, in June and July 1944 with the battalion's Field Training Company but very little parachute training occurred due to shortages. I don't think any SS-FJ actually went near Konitz!PK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmut Von Moltke Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Thanks for the input on Munoz's book Propser! Although it appears to be well researched his writing is a little like that of Franz Kurowski or Charles Whiting. About the caption it was not in Munoz's book but instead in Wenn Alle Bruder Schweigen, originally published by the HIAG's Munin-Verlag, and the Feldwebel probably sent it to a veteran of the unit or the HIAG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKeating Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 My mistake. In fact, I have the caption on Page 145 of the Milius-Kunzmann book, which was published by the printing house of the HIAG. So it seems likely that the photograph was sent to the HIAG at some point by the Heer Feldwebel whose memory of the moment forms the caption in question. PK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanatyk6 Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Hi,Paddy I've found your's post here -> http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic.ph...dt&start=15 concerning SS FJG reconaissance in Bad Schonfliess (also participation of members Jagdverband Mitte with O.Skorzeny). Apart from the fact that it probably took place on the 2th of February not on the 9th, I'm curious about fights in Bad Schonfliess. Where did you find info about killing soviet tank crew by SS FJG small arms fire (vets memories?)? Is there any other information about this action? I've read about this raid in Skorzeny books (Wir k?mpften, wir verloren and Meine Kommandounternehmen) as well as in K. Speer in K?nigsberger Heimatzeitung nr 12/60 and 1/61 and there was no info about any fight in Bad Schonfliess.Best regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
equirhodont Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Does anybody know Walter Scheu´s SS number? Had he Totenkopfring? Thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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