Rolls

[WNickel]

...sorry, there was a little bit prussia, too...

For the red eagle, crown order an Hohenzollern there are onle awards with addon's... An EL or Schleife are not addon's...

[WNickel]

...an example for the last...

001803536 Abafi Pr Soldat Kamerun Schutztruppe Kamerun (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 07 1906

001800003 Abanda II. Pr Soldat Kamerun Polizeitruppe Kamerun (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001805101 Abanda II. Pr Soldat Kamerun Schutztruppe Kamerun (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 05 1903

001800004 Abanda III. Pr Gefreiter Kamerun Polizeitruppe Kamerun (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001803537 Abanda III. Pr Hornist Kamerun Schutztruppe Kamerun (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 07 1906

001800006 Abanda Pr Soldat Kamerun Polizeitruppe Kamerun (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001805102 Abang Pr Soldat Kamerun Schutztruppe Kamerun (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 11 1906

001805105 Abdalla Fadl Mustafa Pr Ombascha DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 06 1900

001803538 Abdalla Faragalla Pr Schausch DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 06 1907

001805106 Abdalla Hami? Pr Betschausch DOA Schutztruppe DOA(Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 15 10 1906

001803539 Abdalla Hussen Pr Schausch DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 07 1906

001803540 Abdalla Hu?ein Pr Askari DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 06 1907

001805108 Abdalla Ibrahim Pr Sol DOA Schutztruppe DOA(Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 15 10 1906

001803541 Abdalla Raschid Pr Ombascha DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 07 1906

001805109 Abdalla Senab Pr Askari DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1897

001805110 Abdalla Ziada Pr Betschausch DOA Schutztruppe DOA(Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 15 10 1906

001800011 Abdalla Pr Askari DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001800012 Abdalla Pr Askari DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001800013 Abdalla Pr Askari DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001800014 Abdalla Pr Ombascha DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001800015 Abdallah Achmed Pr Ombascha DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001800017 Abdallah Diga Pr Schausch DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001800018 Abdallah Faraji Pr Askari DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001805112 Abdallah Mohamed Pr Ombascha DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 15 02 1901

001800021 Abdallah Pr Askari DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001805113 Abdallah Pr Soldat DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 07 1893

001805114 Abdel Cher Achmed Pr Askari DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 15 05 1896

001800022 Abdel Fatah Pr Ombascha DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001800023 Abdi Ali Pr Askari DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001800024 Abdrachman II. Pr Askari DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001800025 Abdrachman Pr Ombascha DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001800026 Abdrachman Pr Schausch DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001800027 Abdrachmani Pr Askari DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001805116 Abdu Farag Pr Askari DOA Schutztruppe DOA(Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 15 10 1906

001800028 Abdudelai Pr Ombascha DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

[David M]

What about the bavarian Orders pre 1914 (BSMO/BCKO et cetera) are there rolls at all, are they being worked on by someone already perhaps?

regards

David

[christerd]

Hallo all reserchers out there, What is the situation about Schwarzburg Rolls?

Last time i saw them mentioned they where 99% ready. Could it be something for Santa to put in the sock?

All the best from the other side of the water

Christer

[Guest Rick Research]

Not in the hands of the Research Gnome Collective. :(

[Ralph]

Have the "Research Gnomes" published the LIppe Rolls yet? If so are there any copies still available?.

Ralph

[Guest Rick Research]

No. It looks like 2010 rather than anything in 2009 for the printing though my weary work is done. :beer:

[Guest Rick Research]

New Rolls in today--

Mecklenburg Strelitz Adolf Friedrich Cross 1917-18, and Mecklenburg-Strelitz Crosses for Distinction in War for 1870/71. :beer:

[Ulsterman]

really????

Do tell- any surprises yet?

[Guest Rick Research]

Well, as usual, the "number awarded" by running down the roll NUMBERS line by line

does not reflect returns and cancellations. Lots of crucial data in the marginalia!

MANY women, which will further reduce the potential for medal bar suspects-- those MOST of these people will likely have had nothing else anyway. And in HALLELUJAH contrast to the OTHER Strelitz Hell Rolls, all nice and neat and-- the "Laufende Nummern" you see down the left column are EXACTLY the number found on the top left of award Urkunden.

Halfway through the Adolf Friedrich Cross roll today. haven't gotten to the 1870s--- but cannot recall EVER seeing one of those on a medal bar!

[Ulsterman]

Out-

standing!!!!!

That handwriting is fantastic!!

[Guest Rick Research]

I don't know if "fantastic" is the word I'd use. Rather eccentric in many places, and microscopic in places, but you get used to deciphering the same hand as pages of similarities crop up. But it is PHENOMENALLY better than the demented senile scribbles of the split personality Cross for Distinction in War lists.

The 1870 ones, BTW are printed in the Official Gazette. Problem is--"Pruussian style" NONE of THEM hav first names, which means I'll have to compare against the 1870 EK2 roll and then try the Orders Almanac.

[webr55]

A great new find!

Somehow I remember a small bar someone had -- years ago, on WAF - with an Adolf Friedrich Cross.

[Guest Rick Research]

Here is a sample of how the work progresses:

From the list of 1870 recipients of the Cross for Distinction in War (I am sure examples on medal bars exist for famous generals and royals, but cannot recall EVER seeing a medal bar with one to a Mere Mortal. EVER...)I type 'em up and then sort 'em out alphabetically.

THEN as Initial Research Cyborg I fill in what data I have on hand (in red-- first names-- also indications of problems or questions from me at this first stage). In single working column I note birth and death years I turn up so those can be added to the book format, as well as highest rank/position known to have been held, highest awards etc. Remember that in 1870 an Iron Cross was by no means "automatic" for every front line officer the way 1914s became... so I encounter again and again the anomaly of PRUSSIAN officers whose sole combat decoration was from little Mecklenburg-Strelitz!

I am currently 1/3 tthe way through the Roll of 1870 Iron Cross recipients, adding first names (and oh so many "middle" names!-- Wolfgang Amadeus Theophil Gustav Eberhard Ehrenfried Schmidt known as"Gustav" but FIND that from "Wolfgang" ) for anyone not alive/listed in the 1908/09 Orders Almanac. You will see notations in the WORKING column above of generals, or the Orders Almanac, or Per Ohm-Hieronymussen's book to show what the SOURCE of specific information is. We Research Cyborgs need this at this point to cross-check and verify work because

more often than you might think, original period sources are WRONG!

As soon as I get through the list of Iron Cross recipients, off this will go to Daniel and Andy to see what they can add. I am woefully "before my time" with this 19th century stuff.

Regimental Stammlisten and so on may provide more names and birth/death years--

all part of the Grand Plan to be able to identify those pesky anonymous medal bars that show up begging to have their identities (can't be HIM-- it has a Wilhelm I Centenary Medal and HE died in 1893...) restored.

So much work... so little time

and no financial return.

You don't HAVE to be crazy-- but is certainly helps! :catjava:

[Guest Rick Research]

I have, after all, begun transcribing and annotating the MASSIVE 1915-1919 rolls for the Sachsen-Meiningen Ehrenmedaille für Verdienste im Kriege, more familiarly and easily referred to by its Rank List abbreviation as "SMM." I expect the final total to be something in the area of 23,000 bestowals.

One month's work and I have just crossed the first 4,500 of them, into 1916 but with MANY hundreds of 1915 awards recorded late still to come.

Here is a sample, showing

A) Recipient's names

B) Rank and unit, and (in most cases) civil occupation and home town. This latter could provide many PhDs worth of sociological research. ("Gruesome" occupations like "eye inserter" result from the many workers in local doll manufacturing establishments

C) Date of award as listed on the Rolls

D) Comments: Oh ho ho. You will note from THIS example, something never seen before the ongoing works we are doing.

E) simply sorting abbreviations the Guild Of Research Cyborgs use "in process" (how many Saxons?... etc etc)

K) Page number in the Rolls. Since they are NOT all in simple chronological order, sometimes a July award comes before March and so on. Having the page number will allow me to make scans of an actual entry, if ever needed.

I cannot sustain the level of work so far through the difficult winter months (cannot type and hammer ice sheets off the roof at the same time, darkness and one eyed vision etc) so this is pretty much what I will be doing for the next year.

While less than a dozen people will ever SEE the results (at over 600 printed pages, this project can NEVER be self-published as my currency is deliberately ruined by the current government), who ELSE is

ever

going to

DO

it?

:catjava:

[Guest Rick Research]

After 6 weeks of slaving away transcribing the Rolls, I have just crossed 6,000 SMMs. That is approximately one quarter of the total, though as previously mentioned this level of work cannot be sustained through the difficult winter months. I present this progress report because the first calendar year of awards has been finished and presents some interesting statistical data on this award—which has never previously been counted and sorted this way.

From March through December 1915 there were exactly 4,600 awards of the SMM on K-Band—of which 12 were cancelled, replaced, or revoked. These deductions were for a variety of reasons from promotion to holding the SMK, a duplicate award, another revoked because the man already held a Silver Medal with Swords of the Ernestine House Order (no statutory exclusion for that reason!), to removals because of legal convictions under the Third Reich. So far there were no such forfeitures under the Weimar Republic.

Of the 4,600 1915 awards, 330 were to Saxons or native Meiningers in Saxon units, surprisingly (at least to me) 253 under the same conditions to members of Baden units, 54 to Bavarian units, 37 in Waldeck’s infantry regiment, 25 in Württemberg units (only 8 of which were gazetted in their Personal Nachrichten), 20 to members of the Imperial Navy, 12 in Hessian units, 3 in Oldenburg units, and 2 in Mecklenburg units.

Thanks to the personal data in each entry, it is possible to identify native Meiningers who were serving in non-“Prussian” armies. I had long been perplexed by Bavarian career NCO groups with SMMs because there was never any common Divisional or Corps affiliation between those two States. The answer revealed by the Rolls is that each man was an individual “stray.”

1916 so far continues to show the same surprisingly broad spectrum of awards to unexpected units. Some were obviously the result of personal, random “on the spot” visits by the Duke. A surprising number were made to soldiers in Breslau and Schweidnitz who must simply have been where the Duke was spending a large part of his time. 600 or so into the second year of awards, an unexpected category of CIVILIANS serving in the occupied territories who received this Medal on the COMBATANT ribbon—but who would NOT have been eligible later for a Hindenburg Cross have turned up. But more on them “next time.” Will likely be springtime before 1916 is done.

[Deruelle]

Great work you do Rick

Christophe

[webr55]

Wonderful! The entire NCO heaven is looking down on you!

[Guest Rick Research]

Tonight's "reward" for lonely perpetual arcane drudgery is the correction of a 94 year old original records MISTAKE.

Here (again, MUCH larger than original size, kiddos) we have the correct name written by the usually NON-insane-dribbling-senile Mecklenburg-Strelitz Orders Chancery clerk... who then SCREWED UP and crossed out

the CORRECT name from Sachsen-Meiningen in order to MISTAKENLY alter it into something he thought was correct-- but wasn't.

Gefreiter Feist was indeed Gefreiter Feist and NOT Gefreiter "Teut."

And if I were NOT the Human Singularity, the veritable Seventh Element of 1914-18 Rolls, whose Indian name means "he who hunches 4-fingered over scribbles"--

two far apart and very much unrelated Rolls would never have been compared.

Who cares? What doth it mattereth?

Well, aside from simply (if belatedly) Getting History RIGHT--

out of the first 6,300 SMMs that I have transcribed, Feist's is the ONLY MStMV2/SMM PAIR to come up.

-------->

Somewhere Out There MAY yet exist an "untraceable" medal bar...

that belonged to an agricultural helper from Naundorf, one of the forgotten tens of millions.

:catjava:

[Guest Rick Research]

Progress report-- only about 14,000 more to go.

[christerd]

Fantastic work Rick!

This world needs people like you, and I really hope there will be some way to print or digitalize this superb info for other collectors to see

A big from Nortern Europe almost on the border to North Pole

Christer

Edited January 13, 2010 by christerd

[Guest Rick Research]

Calendar Year 1916:

In 1916 there were 5,704 SMMs on the combatant ribbon, of which 189 more (adding to the 1915 numbers previously cited) went to Meiningers in and members of Saxon units, 134 more to the Imperial navy, 119 to Bavarian units, 105 more in Baden units, 34 more in Hessian units, 32 more in Waldeck’s regiment, 22 to Württemberg units, 4 more to Mecklenburg units (of the entire Mecklenburg total for both years only 1 was from Strelitz), and 2 to Oldenburg units. This gives some indication of the relative likelihood of being to identify “mere other ranks” award groups. I have not yet “sorted out” Weimar and other Thuringian units, though the updates to award rolls will continue to show how unusual SMMs paired with those awards are. It will be easier to come up with a final “identifiable” total for the mingled Ernestines and Weimar when I finally reach the end in 1919. Not having the Schwarzburg Honor Medal rolls, I cannot determine pairs with those.

With completion of calendar year 1916, I have now transcribed approximately 45% of the SMMs. There may be some VERY minor (single digit) “adjusting” of totals, given corrections of some obvious errors in the original Roll (omission of marginal note “on noncombatant ribbon” when such was obviously the case, etc) and such “fine tuning” will occur as my research brethren compare sources.

[Stogieman]

News from beyond!

SMMs to Recipients of Other Awards in Our 2008 Published Rolls

Recipients of the SMM also holding these awards:

Sachsen-Weimar: General Decoration in Gold X (GSAE1X aka SWA1X or AEz1X)—

Schweinbach, Willy—VFw

Veit, Richard—Fw dL

Sachsen-Weimar: General Decoration in Silver X (GSAE2X or AEz2X)—

Filler, Richard Uffz dR 6./ IR 94

Gottbehür (?) / Gottbehüt (?), Armin—Uffz dR (K.S.) IR 178 clearly written with last letter of name “t” in the Weimar Roll, yet clearly “r” in the SMM roll (same rank, but in K.S. Leib Gren Rgt 100—and SURELY there cannot have been TWO NCOs with this name?!

Waldeck VerdienstkreuzX—

Kleine, Heinrich—was in 3. MGK. PROBABLY the 1915 Uffz who got WgVMX

Waldeck: Gold Merit Medal with Swords (WgVMX)—

Gitter—add 1st name Adolf

Kleine—no 1st name Uffz and only “MGK/ IR 83” PROBABLY Heinrich see WVKX

Waldeck: Silver Merit Medal with Swords (WsVMX)—

Höse—add 1st name Karl and was in 2. MG Komp

Württemberg Non-Württemberg Awards—

Fischer, Ludwig—unit was 1. MG Komp/ K.W. LIR 123, award date 21.06.17

Roßmann (ß not ss), first name was Max—unit was deutschen Mobilen Bahnhofs Kdtr 6/XIII, award date 27.01.17

Sauer, Hermann—actual award date was 21.12.16

These are all the additional awards found into January 1918, though the backlog from record-breaking October 1917 bestowals meant that late awards are far, far out of chronological order.

To repeat earlier updates: amazingly enough, it may actually BE possible to identify SMM “pairs” with certain “exotic” (as in rarely bestowed on Meiningers) WW1 decorations for… mere NCOs. Since it is unlikely that the massive Saxe Meiningen War Merit Medal (SMM in “Rank List speak”) Roll will ever be published/publishable, I provide these annotations for you fortunate few who have Daniel’s and my 2008 published Rolls volumes.

I have completed transcribing almost 16,000 of the approximately 23,000 SMMs on combatant ribbon entries. Earlier “updates” were found somewhere back in the old ongoing “Rolls work” thread. I’ve asked Evil Ricky to just post this as a new thread for me since I am cheerfully recuperating without internet service with no plans to return online.

Good luck and Happy Collecting! Rick Research

[webr55]

Great work! All the best

Chris

[Ulsterman]

awesome!!

Hope springs eternal!