Pushing the envelope....

[Stogieman]

Talk about "career-building"......

[Riley1965]

That's a lot of medals!! Is this for real?!!

Doc

[Rod]

HOLY CrXX!!!!!!

How about the poor little guys that earned all this for him???

Rod

[Guest Rick Research]

I can only imagine the other frontline veterans taking one look at Unteroffizier aD Dumdum and laughing their heads off.

That is the SECOND worst case of overcompensation I have ever seen in a German medal bar. Worst still takes the prize at 13 vanity veterans pieces.

[Paul R]

To think that by 1934, he would only have three!!!!!

[Roeland]

quite some, not hard to earn medals, such as the kyfhauser medals, remembrance medal, flanders medal, regiment medal etc. etc.

only a few prestige awards if you ask me, but those are nice

would be great though if I weared this one if I where in those days, it looks good, nice addition to your collection!

Edited April 10, 2007 by Roeland

[HeikoGrusdat]

to say it in clear words..... there are only TWO official awards on the bar (1 + 2 from the right) and all other stuff is from veteran organizations - BUT - there are some very rare shining crosses of the warrior organizations on the bar that are not often seen - for a collector of this field this bar is the first prize...

[Chris Boonzaier]

To think that by 1934, he would only have three!!!!!

Hi,

I thought so as well, but that is the marinekorps cross on there... the Hindenburg Cross is not yet on the bar.

[Ed_Haynes]

Obviously the bar to that famous hero, Hauptman Walther von Mitty.

[Chris Boonzaier]

One thing must be remembered though......

Many a Gefreiter or thereabouts served from 1914-1918 and fought in all the worst battles..... and simply had an EK2 ribbon.

This guy may have had the great need to show what he did... but that does not mean he was NOT a pocket Rambo.

[Ed_Haynes]

Absolutely, but that doesn't mean he was "augmenting" his medals with the contemporary equivalent of those shameless "commemorative" medals you see you commonly today.

[Stogieman]

Current bid is over 600- Euro...

[Paul C]

I have to agree with Chris on this. As an enlisted man he could have served the entire war and just received the EK2. Although officers where given high level awards for just sitting around or lighting the cigar of the Kaiser, this was not the case with the men who did the actual fighting. I would say this persons display of medals, while a little over the top, is not shameful. To me what is a joke is an officer with a chest full of medals who actually did nothing. The Red Eagle Order 4th class was given out for service time, mostly. When an officer hit Major or the Navy equivalent they received the RAO4 in most cases. It was almost like a good conduct medal.

[Ulsterman]

I have doubts about this bar-mostly because of the last medal, but also because there-are-so-many-of-these-here.

However, this bar makes sense if this man was a Gaufuhrer/Stabsfuhrer of a Stahlhelm or other Weimar vets formation.

These uniformed Weimar vets leaders sometimes wore a profusion of "honorary' or other association awards, but seriously,it stretches credibility that this guy was a simultaneous member of the Saxon, Bavarian, Prussian and whatever other Landerbund is thrown in there. I think its a made "uberbar".

Still, the sale price might be less than the parts individually-we will see.

[Ulsterman]

[quote name='Paul R' date='Apr 9 2007, 19:59 ' post='166039']

To think that by 1934, he would only have three!!!!!

Edited April 10, 2007 by Ulsterman

[Stogieman]

The bar sold for over $1500 USD...... I can't make it add up to that.

[Bob Hunter]

So, Rick, do you think I paid too much??

[Jacky]

Did you buy it??

[HeikoGrusdat]

.....and the next one of these great shining veterans organizations bars right now on ebay.... again the price is climbing

[Stogieman]

I saw this one pop-up in Germany. IMO, directly because of the price achieved on the first one. I understand the rarity of some of these individual items. As mounted groups, they are exceptionally scarce as most were banned in 1934/35. Prices have climbed on these (like everything else) these past couple of years, but again (IMO) way more than they should.

[Ulsterman]

I have been collecting vets association magazines for several years -since Tony Colson sent me a dozen a few years back.

In reading these and the vets' association year books it is stated that some of these medals- were NOT-"everyone can buy one" cheap vanity pieces (notably the "Hamburg Feldehrenzeichn"), but awarded "for service and merit (which may have included sizable donations)" by the autonomous Lander Kreigsvereinen.

Some of the medals on bar #1 were awarded for long service (as in 20 years membership+) or merit to a state veterans organization-and some were limited to under or about 100 a year. The magazines include annual award lists.

They were not "purchase from the association" things like the modern "Order of the Battle of the Bulge". They were more in the character of the U.S. "VFW" and "American legion" medals put out in the 1920s-1930s.

[Guest Rick Research]

I don't know how to "price" these.

To Imperial colectors of my generation (all downhill since the 1980s), Once Upon A Time these vanity awards were all dismissed as "junk." Just... clutter that "spoiled" Pure WW1 bars and fell into the Weimar Weirdness black hole before Third Reich regulation bars.

There is certainly something to be said for their attractiveness. MOST of them WERE attractive to lure veterans into BUYING them back then. Why anybody bothered with the Uggers is beyond me.

But unless somebody has been focused on collecting these for years, with enough personal experience to know what shows up often and what is insanely rare

in the absence of any kind of known numbers, known creation dates, or known availability runs (I suspect some of these existed SOLELY in order to sell them, and once demand bottomed, they Ceased To Be as "organizations") I don't know how to realistically assess monetary value.

It then boils down to what each colector is willing to pay-- personal "value" rarher than an accepted Standard Price Guide "norm."

I would suspect, as has always been the case with OFFICIAL Imperial awards, if REAL NUMBERS could be determined, the overlooked and ignored would suddenly miraculously find collector interest.

I just can't get over that none of these were "real." They were all self-purchase. Historically interesting ephemera, but personally they just "do" nothing for me.

[Ulsterman]

By the way, what is #6 in pic. #19? It appears like some sort of city medal or "Chamber of commerce" from a city medal.

[Guest Rick Research]

Ahhh! We are too far apart for me to keep up with your varied interests. Didn't know you were "into" these.

PART of what I got with more rolls last week is a BOX of Tony's stuff on veterans awards. A lot he seems to have published in OMSA magazines after I left that organization but lots and lots of things are organizational histories, various jubilee publications 1890s-1980s detailing same, lists of organization officers etc etc etc.

YOU are the right person to get those then, since these are completely outside my knowledge. I'll bring them along next month for you.

[Ulsterman]

Here's a snippit from the randomly grabbed Saxon vets' magazine for Spring, 1925 partially listing Verien awards (many 1871 and 1848 vets-yes, there were 2!- got these 'for merit'.