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JimZ

WW1 Victory Medals General Discussion

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I have been wanting to do this exercise in a while..... And although its not exactly top quality professional graphics but I thought I'd share it with you guys anyways!

Incidentally, I am sure that I am missing out on a number of other Victory medals. Can anyone post these so that I may incorporate them into an even bigger comparative pic (unless this already exists elsewhere and you can point me in the right direction!

Jim :cheers:

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Hallo JimZ :beer:

the total list of countries involved with the Inter-Allied Victory Medal are:

Belgium: official Types 1 & 2, Unofficial Type 1, 1a, 2, 3 and at least 4 Repros.

Brazil: Official Type 1 & 2.

Cuba: Official Type, & at least 3 Repros.

Czechoslovakia: Official Type 1, 2, Reissue Type 1, 2, Unofficial Type 1, 2, 3, Repro at least 4 types.

France: Official Type, Reissue, Unofficial Type 1, 1a, 2, 2a, 2b, 2c, 2d, 3, as well as 4 types of Repro.

Great Britain: Official Type 1, Type 2, Repro 1, 2.

South Africa: Official Type 1, Type 2, at least 2 Repro Types.

Greece: Official Type 1, Unofficial Type 1, 2, 3, and at least 2 Repro Types.

Italy: Official Type 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, Reissue 1, 2, Unofficial Type 1, 2, 3, 4, at least 3 Repro Types.

Japan: Official Type 1, Repro Type 2.

Philippines: Official Type 1, 2, Reissue 1, Unofficial Type 1, 2, Varieties Type 1, 2, Repro: UNKNOWN!

Portugal:Official Type 1, 2, Unofficial Type 1, 2, Repro at least 4 known.

Rumania: Official Type 1, Unofficial Type 1, 2, 3, 3a, Repro at least 3Types.

Siam / Thailand: Official Type 1, Repro at least 4 types known.

United States of America: Official Type 1, 2, 3, Reissue Type 1, 2, Repro Types 1, 1a, 2, 3, 3a, 4, 5, So called "Dollar types" (without suspension device) Types 1 & 2.

China* Republic of China War Commemorative Medal.

Poland: Fantasy Piece, no evidence can be found to support the legend that boxes of these were recently discovered in Czechaslovakia!!!! :speechless:

About the most informative regarding these medals id Alexander J. Laslo's book the Inter-Allied Victory Medals of WW1. (2nd Revised Edition).

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

Edited by Kev in Deva

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Nice, the only ones I've got are a load of British ones (only one on the "thin" ribbon, mounted as part of a 1914-15 Star trio & with Mention in Despatches emblem) & a Roumanian & a Belgian one.

I've always fancied a full collection of these, but not paying the prices required for ome of them.

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I've always fancied a full collection of these, but not paying the prices required for ome of them.

Me too, I bought the cheaper ones like Belgium, France, US, Czech, Italy, Greece etc. and spotted a very expensive one from Siam once, but the prices of the more exotic VMs as well as the fakes put me off continuing.

Tony

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If you have any serious interest in these awards, you need to try to find (2nd edition I think was the last) Alexander Laslo's book on these medals (and the later articles in the Medal Collector which updated the book). It isn't easy to find these days, though. Some of the information given above is "borrowed" from it.

Edited by Ed_Haynes

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Hallo Gents, beer.gif

I have a few of these, from various countries but, personaly feel most collectors will never get their hands on the Brazilian, as only approxamatly 2,500 Official issues were made.

The Phillipines issue is another scarce item,

Siam / Thailand are rare as well followed by the Cuban and Japanese one's.

And there is the ever growing amount of Repros and Fakes.

Anybody getting into these I recomend the book:

"The Inter-Allied Victory Medals of WW1" (2nd Revised Edition), by Alexander J. Laslo.

ISBN 0-9617320-1-6

Of course British Victory Medals both to S. African, Colonial and Indian Troops offer the chance of researching the man behind the medal being the only ones named.



Kevin in Deva beer.gif

Edited by IrishGunner

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To all,

As requested by Jim Z and to assist others, here are some panoramic comparison pictures of the archetypal specimens from each of relevant countries in the victory medal series from my collection.

While there are other strikes and many different unofficial and reproduction varieties, those that are displayed here are what are deemed 'official' strikes.

While I have a much higher resolution version of the combined panoramic comparison I am unable to post it due to new member restrictions. I have posted these smaller matching items to negate the need for too much side scrolling.

I hope it is of use to others.

Here's part one.

Regards,

Rob

Edited by RobW

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Followed by part two.

The U.S. medal variety is listed without any battle (engagement) orservice (country) clasps which would necessitate a separate display initself.

Regards,

Rob

Edited by RobW

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To the fellow vic collectors,

I am happy to continue posting items and info here but the last couple of posts and pics should probably have gone into the specific italian vic medal forum thread. I have some nice pics of two Greek vic unofficial type 2 (dark bronze and gilt) which would normally go into the Greek vic thread and am faced with a conundrum. Should we continue to post all country vic items here or in the relevant country threads ?

I have posted a request for a separate Interallied Victory medal topic with specific country sub-threads. I think that this would be the best way to continue to post info and pics in the relevant country under the banner of a specific forum topic.

What level of support would there be from similar like minded vic collectors for such a topic-thread ?

Regards,

Rob

Edited by RobW

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Hi Rob,

First, great information here and I for one would like to say thanks as you're the first collector that I have communicated with that has so many varieties and knowledge on the different die characteristics. It's a great source of information to all levels of VIC collectors, even those with Laslo's sole book on the subject. :cheers:

This has always been a dilemma for Vic collectors and I personally would like to see one central location for these medals, so information can get compiled and not lost or missed when we don't go to that one specific thread/post. The topic covers a specific type of item and timeframe. How many other items are so international but at the same time, so specific in nature?

Tim

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Tim,

Thanks for the kind words. Being a single issue collector it just means I have more time to do research into details of the vic series. Then of course there is the award certificates for the vic series which are just as fascinating as the medals themselves. Some of the certificates are attractive pieces on their own.

While both editions of Mr Laslo's vic books are an excellent reference source, time has moved on and more interesting varieties are continually rising to the surface as well as new information which either adds to, or clarifies these earlier works. I have an original 2nd edition which sits in the bookshelf and another much used 2nd edition copy that has been emended with additions, deletions, and is full of pasted pieces, new images and many black pen markings. That is I suppose the nature of our hobby. You also meet some real gentlemen and more than a few rogues along the way !!

I will continue to scan and post items from my vic collection when, and as, time permits. In a way it is a good project because it also means I am cataloging my collection as I go.

Agreed that a single point of reference for all vic collectors would be a good thing. Let's see what the administrators think of such an idea !:whistle:

Regards,

Rob

Edited by RobW

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You guys have some amazing pieces in your collection.

Thanks Paul.

It is good to get the information out and amongst the collecting group. Makes for more interesting discussions.

And we still can't get a separate forum thread for the vic series !! :D

Regards,

Rob

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Thanks Paul.

It is good to get the information out and amongst the collecting group. Makes for more interesting discussions.

And we still can't get a separate forum thread for the vic series !! biggrin.gif

Regards,
Rob





Well, be paitient Rob. Even if the decision was to have a place set aside in one of the existing sub-forums, I would be happy with that. I see a lot of areas where there is no movement for weeks at a time. Guess it all depends on who is collecting what and when. Right now, there are only a couple of people actively posting on the subject here, so I imagine Admin has to take that into account as well.

Hey! At least we're having fun! :beer:
Tim Edited by IrishGunner

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Well, be paitient Rob. Even if the decision was to have a place set aside in one of the existing sub-forums, I would be happy with that. I see a lot of areas where there is no movement for weeks at a time. Guess it all depends on who is collecting what and when. Right now, there are only a couple of people actively posting on the subject here, so I imagine Admin has to take that into account as well.

Hey! At least we're having fun! :beer:
Tim



Hello Tim,

Fun is a major part of the hobby as well. biggrin.gif

I often think I have reached an end point on collecting specific vic items from a particular country and then I see another pic of yet another variety, on places like these forums, and the chase and search continues.


Regards,
Rob Edited by IrishGunner

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Tim,

I have mused that myself on a few occasions. With all the collectors here on the forums, and the definite international flavour of the victory medal, I find it interesting that there are so few people interested in the vic series. They are either there, and watching but not posting, or they are not there.

That raises the perennial question of 'why do people not share their info and pics' but that is better left for another discussion. :blush:

Time will tell.

Regards,

Rob

Edited by RobW

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Hi Rob,

Was posting PICs over on the Belgian side; another realitively quiet avenue. Oh well, hard to say but, you never know who just joins or comes on and makes the whole difference to the forum or discussion. Until then--more beer for us! :beer:

Been a good day here; just picked up a very nice cased Leopold I (Civil Division) with gold striped borders for acts of bravery during WW1. Had a nice detailed mini as well. Also got a very nice and harder to find Krim (Maedicke) on KM backing and in better shape than normally seen. So, all in all; not a bad day. :cheers:

Tim

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Hello Tim & Rob -

I am afraid that I am probably one of the many who are gaining much from this thread, but contributing little (nothing unsure.gif ). Your one or two references to us "wall-flies" has struck a chord, and I shall endevour to let you know that I am still around now and again.

"I have mused that myself on a few occasions. With all the collectors here on the forums, and the definite international flavour of the victory medal, I find it interesting that there are so few people interested in the vic series. They are either there, and watching but not posting, or they are not there."

"I just wish more people would post their items and get into the discussions and asking questions. We all learn more that way. "

I am a very new beginner in this field, only recently looking at it as a field of collecting that could stand on its own. Looking at this thread it is easy to understand why - soooo many types and variations!! In the past I have really just picked up Vics as I have come across them, always thinking that they are really good looking medals.

This is really a fantastic thread, and a brilliant mine of information for new collectors like me. We can call you our "Grand-Masters".

Thank you again, and please keep posting!!

regards

Thomas

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Hello Tim & Rob -

This is really a fantastic thread, and a brilliant mine of information for new collectors like me. We can call you our "Grand-Masters".

Thank you again, and please keep posting!!

regards

Thomas

Hello Thomas,

Thanks for the kind words. I wouldn't characterise myself as a 'Grand-Master' but moreso just another collector.

If you look at the other country specific threads you will also see some specific posts about their vics as well.

Regards,

Rob

Edited by RobW

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Hello Tim & Rob -

I am a very new beginner in this field, only recently looking at it as a field of collecting that could stand on its own. Looking at this thread it is easy to understand why - soooo many types and variations!! In the past I have really just picked up Vics as I have come across them, always thinking that they are really good looking medals.

regards

Thomas

Hello Thomas,

The medals in the vic series are just the beginning. Once you start down the path of collecting vics it becomes a little bit of a larger world. The official medals themselves then lead you to all the myriad of unofficial strikes, re-issues, contemporary to the time (1920s) and later repro's, and that is just the full size ones. On top of that you have the miniature vics which are fascinating in themselves and the award certificates of some of the countries are very imaginative and attractive pieces.

As a collecting theme there always seems much to keep me busy with the vics. Once you start down the rabbit hole you don't know where it will lead you.

Regards,

Rob

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Hello Thomas!

Welcome to the discussion and like Rob says, we're just collectors here and obviously Rob and Kevin have more knowledge on these than I do, so like you, I consider myself still learning. :cheers:

Now, let's see some of your collection; don't be shy as I'm sure Rob would like to see others beside his own and mine for a change. :P You might be surprised how infectious it becomes once a couple of others start to show their pieces. :beer:

Tim

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Hallo JimZ beer.gif

the total list of countries involved with the Inter-Allied Victory Medal are:

Belgium: official Types 1 & 2, Unofficial Type 1, 1a, 2, 3 and at least 4 Repros.

Brazil: Official Type 1 & 2.

Cuba: Official Type, & at least 3 Repros.

Czechoslovakia: Official Type 1, 2, Reissue Type 1, 2, Unofficial Type 1, 2, 3, Repro at least 4 types.

France: Official Type, Reissue, Unofficial Type 1, 1a, 2, 2a, 2b, 2c, 2d, 3, as well as 4 types of Repro.

Great Britain: Official Type 1, Type 2, Repro 1, 2.

South Africa: Official Type 1, Type 2, at least 2 Repro Types.

Greece: Official Type 1, Unofficial Type 1, 2, 3, and at least 2 Repro Types.

Italy: Official Type 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, Reissue 1, 2, Unofficial Type 1, 2, 3, 4, at least 3 Repro Types.

Japan: Official Type 1, Repro Type 2.

Philippines: Official Type 1, 2, Reissue 1, Unofficial Type 1, 2, Varieties Type 1, 2, Repro: UNKNOWN!

Portugal:Official Type 1, 2, Unofficial Type 1, 2, Repro at least 4 known.

Rumania: Official Type 1, Unofficial Type 1, 2, 3, 3a, Repro at least 3Types.

Siam / Thailand: Official Type 1, Repro at least 4 types known.

United States of America: Official Type 1, 2, 3, Reissue Type 1, 2, Repro Types 1, 1a, 2, 3, 3a, 4, 5, So called "Dollar types" (without suspension device) Types 1 & 2.

China* Republic of China War Commemorative Medal.

Poland: Fantasy Piece, no evidence can be found to support the legend that boxes of these were recently discovered in Czechaslovakia!!!! speechless.gif

About the most informative regarding these medals id Alexander J. Laslo's book the Inter-Allied Victory Medals of WW1. (2nd Revised Edition).

Kevin in Deva. beer.gif

The poland type 1st came on the market late 80s from a canadian medaldealer send a lot of flyers/sheets worldwide to collectors(yes that was pre internettimezone) with a nice story about it

Today there a 3 types,1st type with the kremnicia(slovakian state mint)mark on it 2nd type without kremnicia makersmark 3rd type other reverse other type of crown

Made today in different types of metal and offered by polish medal/coin dealers

I do have some orignial czech WWI victory medals in stock any intrest??

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Hi to all you who are interesed. there is a (63) Victory medal listing for sale on ebay (item # 160379547347). You name it, it is there. Siam, Brazil etc.

Edited by IrishGunner

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To All, I hope that I am adding something good to this site.

This a short story. I started my collecting days in the field of military uniform buttons. I lived about 115 miles from the home of the person who was most consided as the expert having written “The Bible” plus serveral other books on that subject. So after a few phone calls and a few visits, I was off to find these rare and hopefully unknown treasures at the Military & Guns shows armed with his book. I drove over 150 miles to a large show and after looking at countless items on the tables, I came upon a very rare button. The table was manned by a sweet old chap with a pipe in his mouth who had a box of these buttons. There was 10 in all. He was a local person not a dealor who travel from show to show. After going through his junk box, I found ten confederate buttons from the Civil War, all the same buttons and all same back markings. He knew that they were old but did not know their value and there had been no interest in them over the years. We set a price, $300 for all ten. The1970 book value was $100 each according to the “Bible”. So before I purchased them, I made a call to my new friend, the “Author” of the so-called Bible. After numerus questions from him, I was back at the table with my money in hand.

Due to my excitement, I drove over 265 miles to my friend’s home with my find due to the fact that he had interest in purchasing one or two of these buttons from me at book price a they were very rare. His repsonse was “oh them!” It seems as though a very respectable collector in the field was selling them as a great find after his purchase from a warehouse in Jamaica.

As the story goes: a blockade runner during the U.S. Civil War had a warehouse in Jamaica. A hundred years later, the items in the warehouse were put up for auction and purchased by this respectable collecteor. The respectable collector then sold hundreds of these buttons to collectors at very high prices even our “Author of the so-called Bible”. I asked him why there were no good references, details or photos of this button and over forty other known bogus buttons in his lastest book publication. He stated, “cost and time”.

I tell this story because we are caretakers of these items “Victory Medal’s or Buttons” not the owners of them and their history. I see the need for proper and full exchange of information. As well, I see junk being sold on Ebay at very high prices. The interest is there but not all the information as to what is a good buy verus a questionable buy.



Laslo’s book is a great starting point with its masterful details of the Victory Medal. However, because of the poor quality of its photographs, it has left me and I am sure countless others with a ton of questions. Since I have logged onto this chat site, you and all the others have filled in details that Laslo and Glein have left out.



I thank you all for your time, JM

Edited by IrishGunner

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Hi Rob, and thanks for the come back.

To All, I hope that I am adding something good to this site.

This a short story.... I asked him why there were no good references, details or photos of this button and over forty other known bogus buttons in his lastest book publication. He stated, "cost and time".

I tell this story because we are caretakers of these items "Victory Medal's or Buttons" not the owners of them and their history. I see the need for proper and full exchange of information. As well, I see junk being sold on Ebay at very high prices. The interest is there but not all the information as to what is a good buy verus a questionable buy.

Laslo's book is a great starting point with its masterful details of the Victory Medal. However, because of the poor quality of its photographs, it has left me and I am sure countless others with a ton of questions. Since I have logged onto this chat site, you and all the others have filled in details that Laslo and Glein have left out.

I thank you all for your time, JM

Hello JM,

Happy to be of help if it is of use.

Your story of the buttons is a good one as the corollary of it also has implications in the vic series.

There are many people in the various collecting fields that are happy to watch and learn but not contribute and there are also many times when cheap items are sold as something 'rare' and the word doesn't get out. In a lot of cases the collectors that are caught by these 'rare' items are those new to the field or those that don't possess any number of the standard references for their field.

As far as the vic series goes, and in addition to Mr Laslo's 2nd Edition book, if you don't already have them I would recommend attempting to locate a copy of the following references:

* 'The Gleim Medal Letters 1971-1997' published by the OMSA, OMSA Medal Notes No.5, 1998

* A number of vic related journal articles from 'The Medal Collector' (OMSA Journal) produced in the early to mid 90's.

* 'Battlefield Credits and Campaign Awards' by Planchet Press (No 21B). The book lists the entitlement of units to battle streamers for their colours but it also has relevance because of the corresponding entitlement of battle streamers to victory medal clasps of units in the A.E.F.

These references would expand your information base on top of what is contained in places like this and other forums.

Your point about proper and full exchange of information is a good one however I do think that the vic collecting field still has collectors that have the information but are reticent to share. Hopefully that will change. This forum is a good place for those of us who think the information should get out so I would encourage all to keep posting. You are indeed adding to it as it does generate discussion.

Regards,

Rob

Edited by RobW

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To one and all,

As there has been a distinct lack of activity here are a couple of vic items which have been referred to previously but not yet posted.

I hope this new year will bring some more posters amongst the sea of watchers.

Regards,

Rob

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