Austria-Hungary Signum Laudis

[Alex K]

Attached is my Signum Laudis medal, complete with a new ribbon. also indicated is the original ribbon it came with.

Don't ask me why I purchased a replacement ribbon!!?

Queston, the hook and eye arrangement for the two are somewhat different, was there a standard method for these on original decorations or was it down to the individual taylor's preferences etc? I am really interested in the earlier ribbon's details, if this was a common way of sewing trifold ribbons at the time, it would help in identifying more authentic pieces.

thanks

Alex

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Alex K,

I believe it was down to individual makers / tailors, the hooks and clasp vary as well, the one on the right looks more astehtic by having most of the hook hidden.

Kevin in Deva.

Edited April 24, 2007 by Kev in Deva

[Josef Rietveld]

Hi Alex, there were different types of hook and eye

BTW the picture shows a signum memoriae medal not a signum laudis (military merit medal)

haynau

[hunyadi]

As there are several varieties out there - the one on the left is what I like to see more often - this is a 'high hook' as I like to call them. The point of the ribbon ends a little higher than the modern replacements. The hook has about 5-7mm of wire before it gets to the elbow. Sometimes the sewing eylets are sewn on the outside - like the one shown (perhaps after they broke off?) and more often they are sewn on the inside of the point. These types of ribbons I find mostly on the pre 1916 issue medals. I dont see them often on the Karoly medals.

The replacement ribbons are getting better as they sometimes use old stock ribbon and then put newer hardware on them. Things to look for in the new replacements are: No 'high hook' styles. The hardware is 90% of the time made of shiny brass material with the eylet for the hook being of crude quality - it looks good - but when you compare them to original...Post war ribbons (1918-1945) appear with brass hardware, steel hardware, enamel coated eylets, brass eyelets - again - quality is the thing to look for. About 6 months ago I found some replacement ribbons that had painted enamel eyelets...

[Alex K]

haynau, you're quite right of course, I've got problems with medal identification HEH HEH!

[Alex K]

Hi gents sorry I've not replied sooner, I've been computerless, a ghastly experience!! Thanks for the comments, I've noticed on my other tri-fold ribbons that the eyelets are sown within the ribbon fold not outside, similar to the repro ribbon.

BTW are all Austria/Hungarian empire medal issued with tri-fold 40mm ribbons or was the medal awarded with a straight piece and then the recipient had them made into trifolds? I do have a piece of Signum Laudis medal which appears to be authentic but has a more pink colour and is only 30mm wide?

regards

alex

[Guest Rick Research]

There are all sorts of styles. Here is a Vienna made Turkish Osmanie Order which has the hook and eye concealed on back (which leaves trying to fasten it up inside underneath and unseen ) AND the enormously awkward, heavy award itself is PERMANENTLY sewn inside the ribbon:

These tiny little exterior hooks and eyes are flimsy and weak-- really a bad design. The long hooks and eyes were a much stronger solution.

[Dave Danner]

A Bulgarian Civil Merit Order with a set-up similar to that which Rick shows for the Ottoman Osmanie. If I remember correctly, this one too was Austrian-made.

A more standard hook and eye arrangement on this Military Order for Bravery, but note how the higher top fold creates a pentagonal ribbon style similar to Russian decorations.

W?rttemberg sometimes used a loop-through-and-tuck form of trifold as seen below, with the ribbon passing through a large suspension ring and both ends then folded twice and tucked in. Unfolded, the order could be looped through a buttonhole. Folded, a pin could be attached as in the Friedrichs-Orden below.

Hessen-Darmstadt also sometimes followed this custom:

[Christian Zulus]

"Signum Laudis": Again a recent Austrian Military Decoration

Gentlemen,

the "Signum Laudis" still exists .

The official name is now: "Milit?r-Anerkennungsmedaille" and in the order of precedence among the military decorations it has a rather high rank.

Best regards from Vienna

Christian

[Alex K]

Hi everyone, some very interesting variations (And beautiful awards!) ,?I?particularly?like?the?pentagonal?style.?Attached?two?of?my?Hungarian?order?of?merit?crosses?which?show?a?more?"Traditional"?style.

Thanks for the most interesting input

regards

Alex

[Lukasz Gaszewski]

"Signum Laudis": Again a recent Austrian Military Decoration

Gentlemen,

the "Signum Laudis" still exists .

The official name is now: "Milit?r-Anerkennungsmedaille" and in the order of precedence among the military decorations it has a rather high rank.

Best regards from Vienna

Christian

Dear Christian,

I have not heard of the Milit?r-Anerkennungsmedaille before, probably because it is fairly new. A quality photo indeed.

Daf?r ein "Danke sch?n" von mir.

BTW: do you also have a photo of the Milizmedaille, established along with it?

Best regards,

Lukasz

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Christian,

I have not heard of the Milit?r-Anerkennungsmedaille before, probably because it is fairly new. A quality photo indeed.

Daf?r ein "Danke sch?n" von mir.

BTW: do you also have a photo of the Milizmedaille, established along with it?

Best regards,

Lukasz

Dear Lukasz,

here is the new Milizmedaille:

That's the link of the Austrian Army's official website, where you find all recent military & civil decorations (in HQ) of Austria:

http://www.bmlv.gv.at/abzeichen/orden/galerie.php?id=122

Best regards

Christian

[Lukasz Gaszewski]

Thanks, Christian!

In the I Austrian Republic a Milit?rverdienstmedaille also existed. It was established in 1935 in one class. The medal was made of gilt bronze and was 30 mm of diameter. The ribbon was red with white edges. Between 1935 and 1938 only 112 medals are known to have been awarded, mostly to lieutenants and captains. The name "Signum Laudis" was not used. It ceased to exist with the incorporation of Austria into Germany in 1938. (Image courtesy G?nter Erik Schmidt)

Edited April 28, 2007 by Lukasz Gaszewski

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Lukasz,

many thanks for the scan - a cute and nice looking medal .

I assume, that the recent "Signum Laudis" is also a very rarely confered medal .

The problem is with all the special military decorations of the II Austrian Republic, that they are confered in a very, very reluctant way - on contrary to all the civil decorations .

Most of my friends in the Austrian Army never got the medals, they should get for their service .

Best regards

Christian

Edited April 28, 2007 by Christian Zulus

[Lukasz Gaszewski]

Dear Christian,

Well, I think that perhaps the reason is that so far there have been just few medals to choose from. Das Milit?r- Verdienstzeichen is indeed a very high decoration, and therefore difficult to obtain. Die Einsatzmedaille is awarded for specific service abroad or emergency service only and thus limited, too. I believe that das Wehrdienstzeichen is awarded "automatically" upon the completion of prescribed years of service (5, 15 and 25), while die Wehrdienstmedaille with its demand to complete 60 and 30 days of training doesn't seem too difficult to obtain, although, as far as I remember there are certain limitations. Please correct me if I am wrong - is the bronze Wehrdienstmedaille conferred upon completion of the basic training? Anyway, let's hope that with the introduction of the Milit?r-Anerkennungsmedaille the situation will get better

Best,

Lukasz

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Christian,

Well, I think that perhaps the reason is that so far there have been just few medals to choose from. Das Milit?r- Verdienstzeichen is indeed a very high decoration, and therefore difficult to obtain. Die Einsatzmedaille is awarded for specific service abroad or emergency service only and thus limited, too. I believe that das Wehrdienstzeichen is awarded "automatically" upon the completion of prescribed years of service (5, 15 and 25), while die Wehrdienstmedaille with its demand to complete 60 and 30 days of training doesn't seem too difficult to obtain, although, as far as I remember there are certain limitations. Please correct me if I am wrong - is the bronze Wehrdienstmedaille conferred upon completion of the basic training? Anyway, let's hope that with the introduction of the Milit?r-Anerkennungsmedaille the situation will get better

Best,

Lukasz

Dear Lukasz,

yes, you are right: If you haven't been a complete idiot or notorious crook, you will receive the Wehrdienstmedaille in bronze after the basic service.

But that's it .

I have hardly seen a NCO, officer or general, who has got the medals, he should have gotten .

As far, as I know, there is also a limitation in the Austrian Army to the numbers of decoration you are allowed to wear at your uniform - I assume, that the absolute maximum - already with special permission (!) - are 12 medals .

Maybe our soldiers don't apply for their medals? Maybe they don't care at all about them?

Another point are the high ranking orders of the state, the range of the "Ehrenzeichen". Everybody is eager to get them ...

Also the UN-medals you can see at the uniforms.

Usually you see at uniforms the Wehrdienstmedaille in bronze, maybe a Wehrdienstzeichen, UN-medals, one or two orders of the Austrian provinces and one or two Ehrenzeichen - and maybe some foreign awards.

I have really no glue, why there is such a hughe range of military medals, when they are not confered ???????????

That's the highest "Ehrenzeichen", that the highest ranking general (chief of staff) gets, when he retires (with silver breast star):

Best regards

Christian

[Dave Danner]

Just to round out the discussion, which is a bit of a tangent but interesting, here are Hungarian Regency-era Signa Laudis:

[Lukasz Gaszewski]

In 1929 the Large Gold Signum Laudis medal was entirely redesigned. The new medal was oval, surrounded by a green enameled laurel wreath and worn as a neck decoration. The ribbon was also different - red with white edges. War merit (since 1939) war denoted by a pair of crossed swords between the medal and the surmounting St. Stephen's crown.

Lukasz

(http://www.akm.externet.hu/rendjel/adatok/sl.htm)