mravery Posted May 2, 2007 Author Share Posted May 2, 2007 Hey Guys,Just want to confirm that the Sword order is the Knight class with enamel and not the lower grade....CheersMark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Hey Guys,Just want to confirm that the Sword order is the Knight class with enamel and not the lower grade....CheersMarkHi MarkIn the Sword the knight is the officer class of the order. There is a silver meit cross and a sword medal which is fairly more rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Hi MarkIn the Sword the knight is the officer class of the order. There is a silver meit cross and a sword medal which is fairly more rare.The knight will have enamel on the arms so you are correct. I have an early one with a rosette which would make officer class too.SincerelyBrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mravery Posted May 2, 2007 Author Share Posted May 2, 2007 (edited) Hey Brian,Ok.... just to be clear.. the one I pictured.. would be the Knight 1st class... which is what Nyholm was awarded (just want to clarify this before I buy it).Thanks !Mark Edited May 2, 2007 by mravery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Hey Brian,Ok.... just to be clear.. the one I pictured.. would be the Knight 1st class... which is what Nyholm was awarded (just want to clarify this before I buy it).Thanks !MarkMark the one pictured would have been identical to the one Nyholm was awarded. Early ones have a hinged crown. No problem always good to double check. SincerelyBrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mravery Posted May 2, 2007 Author Share Posted May 2, 2007 Thanks Brian !!!!CheersMark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mravery Posted May 3, 2007 Author Share Posted May 3, 2007 Hey Guys,The Silver cross arrived today.... here are the pics (interesting that it's mounted on an Austrian style ribbon)In my opinion... it is kind of 'crude'... are they all this way ?CheersMark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mravery Posted May 3, 2007 Author Share Posted May 3, 2007 Reverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 ReverseHi MarkNice job to find one with an Austrian ribbon . I have never seen an Austrian style mounted ribbon on a Danish decoration. You might just have chance to trace down the recipient, can't imagine to many Austrians receivng the Silver Merit Cross. Perhaps Mike can get you a name. Hold that ribbon!!!!!! SincerelyBrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Dane Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 (edited) Mark,Without having the actual piece in hand, I'd say it looks OK.Danish ribbon style evolved over time. In the 19th century a straight ribbon was normally used, but towards the end of the century the trifold ribbon became very popular (probably copied after Austrians). Even Christian IX himself wore his Dannebrog Silver Merit Cross on a trifold ribbon (although the cross had a different cypher than yours).Shortly after the turn of the century the current 'trifold' style became standard (although - as I already mentioned - the decision of which part should be on top of the other was changed around 1910-20)./Mike Edited May 3, 2007 by Great Dane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Dane Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Brian,It's very easy to list the amount of Austrians who received this cross: The Silver Merit Cross was reserved for Danes only (unless you were Royalty related to the King...)/Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mravery Posted May 3, 2007 Author Share Posted May 3, 2007 Thanks for the comments guys...... Do they copy these Silver Crosses ?Mike.... is there any way to know when Nyholm was awarded the Oldenburg Officer cross (prewar or wartime)... that might help to determine if his should have swords or not.CheersMark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Dane Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 (edited) There are a few copies of the Silver Merit Crosses out there, but so few that they were probably made as replacement pieces rather than made to deceive.And the ones I've seen are very easy to distinguish from the real thing. So unless some very good copies exist (which I don't believe) yours is as genuine as they come.If you're unsure of specific details on the cross, you're welcome to mail me (PM or here) detailed pictures of it.Tomorrow is a national holiday here, so the libraries are closed (talk about lack of logic...), but I'll try to go there on Saturday and do some more research.You'll have to live with the suspense until then /Mike Edited May 3, 2007 by Great Dane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Brian,It's very easy to list the amount of Austrians who received this cross: The Silver Merit Cross was reserved for Danes only (unless you were Royalty related to the King...)/MikeHi Mike Glade to have asked that question, very good info to have. Super job in explaining the ribbons to us , my Dannebrog knight is placed on a straight ribbon and always assumed it was to a foreigner. I'll send a scan later this evening on the Dannebrog thread not to go SincerelyBrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Dane Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Thanks Brian ,And remember that the Silver Merit Cross was awarded in high numbers (as a bravery award) during the two Danish-Prussian wars in 1848-50 and 1864 (i.e. the Frederik VII and the Christian IX versions). These crosses were mainly awarded to 'the common man' who wasn't used to wear orders and medals, so many of them kept the cross on a straight ribbon even after the 'fashion' changed./Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mravery Posted May 3, 2007 Author Share Posted May 3, 2007 Hey Guys,Here is a pic that I 'borrowed' off an ebay auction a while ago...... showing the Austrian style ribbons in wear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Dane Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Christian IX also wore his orders with the 'Danish trifold' ribbon (even on early pictures), so there was a bit of anarchy (or just no established procedure yet)...What is also interesting to notice is that not until approx. 1920 did it become normal to wear the orders and medals mounted on a bar. Until then they were just attached as singles./Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Hey Guys,Here is a pic that I 'borrowed' off an ebay auction a while ago...... showing the Austrian style ribbons in wear. Dannebrog knight, what are the other three medals on the trifold ribbon? Danish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Christian IX also wore his orders with the 'Danish trifold' ribbon (even on early pictures), so there was a bit of anarchy (or just no established procedure yet)...What is also interesting to notice is that not until approx. 1920 did it become normal to wear the orders and medals mounted on a bar. Until then they were just attached as singles./Mike Hi Mike Since Mark wants to duplicate General Nyholm's decorations and bars didn't come into play into post WWl, then he can attach onto uniform as single pieces which would be correct providing the date of the uniform. If not dated, What is the rank of Mark's uniform?Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mravery Posted May 3, 2007 Author Share Posted May 3, 2007 Hey Brian,It's dated 1918 and the rank is Major General......But it has the loops for 2 medal bars.. not the individual medals.... and since he retired in 1931... He could have worn this up till then and just wore a different set of shoulder boards (for Lt. Generl).CheersMark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Dane Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 (edited) Gents,Please don't take 1920 as a precise date. Some had copied what they saw foreign officers wearing etc. It's just that around 1910-20 it starts to be the norm to use medal bars.On Mark's picture:Around the neck: Dannebrog, Grand CommanderOn chest:Dannebrog, Silver Merit CrossDenmark, Commemorative medal for 2nd Danish-Prussian war 1864Greece, Order of the Redeemer, KnightUnknown, maybe Russian?Is this Christian IX or Frederik VIII? (they both wore these kind of orders)He is wearing a foreign Grand Cross sash and Star (maybe in connection with a state visit?)/Mike Edited May 3, 2007 by Great Dane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mravery Posted May 4, 2007 Author Share Posted May 4, 2007 Hey guysHere is the full 'stolen' image.... do you know who this is ? (also notice. only one neck order !) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mravery Posted May 4, 2007 Author Share Posted May 4, 2007 (edited) Hey Mike,Thanks, in advance, for the trip to the library.... oh.. and while your researching the Oldenburg.... if you happen to find out about the Albert the Bear, Orange Nassu or the St. Anne (were they with or without swords)... please don't keep me in suspense From my account..... those are the 4 orders that could be with or without swords.... and the ones in quesiton.Cheers and thanks !Mark Edited May 4, 2007 by mravery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Dane Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Mark,It's 72 degrees outside, the girls are wearing mini skirts and the smell of freshly brewed coffee is reaching me from my local caf?... but hey... how can that compete with sitting inside a dark and dusty library for hours... Unfortunately there are never any indications whether an award was with or without swords (probably because we never used swords ourselves). My only hope is to find out which year the different awards occured in his lists for the first time (so no exact award date either).The guy in the picture is King Frederik VIII (1906-1912).Yeah, I guess if he wears the Dannebrog Grand Commander (a special class for royalty only) he wouldn't want to 'pollute' it with inferior Commander crosses /Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mravery Posted May 4, 2007 Author Share Posted May 4, 2007 Mark,It's 72 degrees outside, the girls are wearing mini skirts and the smell of freshly brewed coffee is reaching me from my local caf?... but hey... how can that compete with sitting inside a dark and dusty library for hours... Hey Mike,Who needs the girls in mini skirts when you have a good book to keep you company (ok... I'll owe you a BIG one for this)Unfortunately there are never any indications whether an award was with or without swords (probably because we never used swords ourselves). My only hope is to find out which year the different awards occured in his lists for the first time (so no exact award date either).Well.... at least this will let me know whether they were wartime awards or the 'Thank you for visiting our country' awards... The guy in the picture is King Frederik VIII (1906-1912).Yeah, I guess if he wears the Dannebrog Grand Commander (a special class for royalty only) he wouldn't want to 'pollute' it with inferior Commander crosses Well.. that might answer a question that Brian had...... that means the pic could be as late as 1912.. with the trifold ribbon in wearCheersMark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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