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The Kleingärtner badges were made by several manufacturers each with their own distinctive pin plate/keeper. There are also minor differencies in the eagles heads/necks, & under high magnification the pebbling & enamel etc. The most common of these seems to have been Carl Poellath who I believe as you will see, also made the anniversary pin for this organisation.

In the next few posts I will show 4 different makers, one I feel <i>could</i> be a fake. There is at least one more maker of these pins that I have not yet found an example of to show here. If you have one not shown, please post it.

First the most common, Carl Poellath

Cheers

Don

Poellath.jpg

 

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Next is Frank & Reif.

This is the one that may be a fake. If it is, then it's an extremely good one..... My suspicians are due to the following.

The badge matches in size (w+h) to the other makes but is very heavy & thicker compared to the others.

I have a feeling that the eagle is possibly cast, there is a distict line on the edge in some places, between the neck & wing elbow/joint for instance, It is not made of the same dull material as the others either. This is a shiny white metal, the whole badge (including the eagle) is non magnetic. The size of the eagle is exactly the same as the other manufacturers including depth, whereas the badge itself is thicker.

Notice the pin plate.....

Kleing_rtner_F_R.jpg

 

 

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There does seem to be rivets under the plate as in these next 2 images, you can just see the "bump" caused by the plate sitting over them.

2a.jpg

k3.jpg

 

 

 

 

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Here are a couple of the anniversary pins I have. As you can see the pin plate is the same as used by Poellath, therefore I would guess they made them. I have never seen a marked anniversary pin.

The 20 year

Kleingartner_20yr.jpg

 

 

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Don Thank you for this work you did on these. How do the three makers feel in hand as to weight? I have only one of these in my hand and it was extremely light. I beleive it was a Polleath. Sorry I do not have an example to add. Still searching. Robert :cool:

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How do the three makers feel in hand as to weight? I have only one of these in my hand and it was extremely light. I beleive it was a Polleath.

Thanks Robert.

They all seem fairly light (unfortunately I haven't a set of scales yet :blush: ), however the Frank & Reif is very noticeably heavier.

Cheers

Don

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[attachmentid=51860][attachmentid=51861]

Gents I thought I would add this 20 Year to this database. I would conclude that this is a Poellath by the pin attaching plate. Regards Robert

File0502.jpg

File0503.jpg

 

 

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This is one of the more quality style tinnie than usual, almost like a war badge or award in quality and design. These have got to be some of the nicest designs and manufacture of tinnie or member badge that I have seen. :love: (the green does it for me) I will have to keep my eyes peeled for one of my own. A side note, comparing to some of my fakes the Frank & Reif example definitely looks cast, but whether it was cast during period is another question. Tough call indeed.

Cheers and thanks for showing these fine pieces and references,

Pat

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Yes, kudos to Don for putting these together and imparting his expertise. The badge I have shown was acquired after studying Don's example and seeing that it looks like a match. A 'must view' thread before making an acquisition. Have a great weekend. Robert

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I have finally obtained a set of scales & calipers & have taken some measurements of the standard membership badges.

As you can see, the Frank & Reif badge is indeed heavier & very slightly larger than the other makers......

[attachmentid=53553]

Cheers

Don

Table_b.jpg

 

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Here is another I got my hands on yesterday. On our way home from my son's little league game I thought I would stop at the antique and collectible market that we pass by. Without Don's great database for guidance I took the plunge anyway. It just felt right in hand and showed signs of honest wear. Maybe I got lucky? Robert

File0673.jpg

File0674.jpg

 

 

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A very nice one it looks too. Check out the little cluster of pebbles under the green enamel immediately above the "UT" in Deutscher, looks like the same die to me.

Cheers

Don

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Don You are right. The cluster appears identical. It is hard to get by without reference data when at markets and shows. I'll never forget the DAV brooch I passed over for lack of reference only to find out later it was a good one. I have yet to see the seller or another example of the badge "live" since. Robert PS I can move this to the data base if you would like.

Edited by BURGERHAUS

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This is mine and looks like the one you poster without rivits.

Mine has the pin outline for placement. Any good?

Thanks,

Don

garden.jpg

 

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Frank & Reif badges worry me, your badge is the third variant I know of & I'm damn sure they didn't make so many that they needed to make fresh dies, but who knows......

On my one above, as well as not having the round guide for the plate did you notice that the maker mark is on opposite sides? The name is on the right & town on the left.

I have another variant which I shall post here with the same name positioning as yours but also without the round guide (unless they've used a larger plate & it's covering it). I really do not know what's going on with them. The lettering on the obverses all appear to be different as well.

Here it is.

Cheers

Don

Kleing_rtner_F_R_variant_ob.jpg

Kleing_rtner_F_R_variant_rev.jpg

 

 

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To throw more fuel onto the fire, the manufacturer used on the cheap fakes available from the usuall copy specialists is also F&R.... Although I would hope that this appauling badge would not fool many, although I do know that it has.

Everything on Gods Earth is wrong with this badge however it is interesting to note a few points. On the reverse, a ring for the pinplate but no virtical guides top & bottom, & the base of the badge is far too oval. On the obverse the use of definite pebbling under the green enamel & the best of all the spelling of Deutscher using an "o" instead of a "u"......... I'm not even going to mention the eagle. :banger:

Kleing_rtner_F_R_fake_ob.jpg

Kleing_rtner_F_R_fake_rev.jpg

 

 

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Scowen said:
Came across another maker recently, BH Mayer.........

Cheers

Don

Don I couldn't resist this B. H. Mayer. It appears someone along the way made a feeble attempt to clean the reverse. Also, notice if you would the way the rivets have been flattened unlike your example. Also, it appears as if it has been repaired in the top right corner of the green as that area is lacking pebbling. Have a good day all. Robert

File0684.jpg

File0685.jpg

 

 

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Indeed it does. Is it very noticeable in hand? I wouldn't have seen it in the picture without you mentioning it.

Cheers

Don

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Robert it does indeed appear to have some repair work done. An interesting piece.

--dj--Joe

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I noticed the repair as soon as I had it in hand. Of course I couldn't see it from thew seller's scan. As a matter of fact, I had to e-mail him because I couldn't make out the maker either. When he replied Mayer I jumped as I only know of Don's example. I can allways mail it back. The repair doesn't detract too much actually but a repir it is just the same. What do you guys think of the rivets? Ther eagle appears the same as Don's example as well. heers Robert

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