Daniel Krause

House Order of Hohenzollern - info needed

375 posts in this topic

On 2/13/2016 at 22:45, Stogieman said:

here's a gold Hohenzollern

ghrk1.jpg

Very interesting piece. That is a highly unusual type to see in gold (in fact I've never seen one). Can you please share the weight?

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I'm sorry I don't have the weight. I had two crosses in gold, both bought from Detlev Niemann

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If it's any help - here is a gold Knight without swords.  It weighs just under 18g including the ribbon and pin.

GoldHohA.JPG

GoldHohB.JPG

GoldHohC.JPG

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Very nice piece Beau. Thank you for the information.

Stogieman, I gather you no longer have that piece then?

 

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Anyway, it's a beautiful piece from the 1930s, but I sort of doubt it was gold. Almost all pieces of this type (shown by Stogieman) were made of bronze-gilt (some very few were silver gilt).

Here is an identical piece. It's actually shown in this thread, although it's a few years old. The piece is/was Claudio's.

It is bronze-gilt.

 

Brinze Gilt HOH.jpg

Looking closer now, I think that Claudio's bronze-gilt piece is the same one shown by Stogieman.

Brinze Gilt HOH comp.jpg

Here, also from this thread, is what I believe is the same type on a bar owned by Beau, but in silver-gilt.

All of these would have been 1930s-era private purchase types by J. Godet und Sohn. The silver gilt ones are pretty uncommon!

Brinze Gilt HOH Beau Newman.jpg

Beau, do you still have this lovely bar? If so, I'd love to see larger photos of the HOH3X.

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ID: 357   Posted (edited)

No, I had two all gold Hohenzollerns, both purchased from Detlev Niemann. They were gold, not bronze gilt, not silver gilt.

No I don't own them anymore, these are my archive pictures.

Neither one was sold to Claudio

Edited by Stogieman

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Thanks Stogieman.

I will ask Claudio if he still has the piece and maybe he can settle the mystery for us.

A real gold one of that type would be quite a find.

Stay tuned!

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ID: 359   Posted (edited)

I believe I have solved this mystery.

Claudio has confirmed to me that the piece Stogieman shows is the same piece he has. He still has it. He bought it from Stogieman many years ago as a bronze-gilt piece (for a bronze-gilt price).

Since Detlev Niemann was unlikely to confuse bronze for gold, the explanation is most probably that Stogieman mislabeled his photos and posted his old bronze-gilt piece as a gold piece here by accident. Stogie and Claudio, thanks for all the info and help!

Too bad, as I was hoping for some exciting news about 1930s-era Godet pieces made in gold.

But great pieces shown here anyway.

Beau, any chance you still have that bar? I'd be very interested to see the HOH3X and especially the marks.

Edited by Streptile

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Hi Trevor!

Sometimes from the pictures is hard to tell if it's gold, bronze-gilt or silver-gilt, but once you have such a piece in your hands it's easy to see the differences, especially the weight and the quality.

ciao,

C

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ID: 361   Posted (edited)

7 minutes ago, Claudio said:

Hi Trevor!

Sometimes from the pictures is hard to tell if it's gold, bronze-gilt or silver-gilt, but once you have such a piece in your hands it's easy to see the differences, especially the weight and the quality.

ciao,

C

Thanks for the help Claudio!

It would have been very interesting indeed if Stogieman's piece was gold, because it would have changed some things I thought I knew about Godet's manufacturing during the interwar period. It's for this reason that I was so interested.

Bronze-gilt makes much more sense even if it is less exciting.

Here is one of my lovely gold pieces by Godet, which I believe I have shown here already, next to its younger brother in silver-gilt. Obviously the tooling on these pieces (which both predate 1918) is totally different from the 1930s pieces.

IMG_7930.jpg

Edited by Streptile

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Here are some better shots.  It is definitely a later piece with the swords integral to the wreath and not applied.  It is marked JGuS 938 so, it is silver gilt.

HohA.JPG

HohB.JPG

HohC.JPG

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Hi Beau,

Thanks very much for taking those photos. That is a great example of the type: a J. Godet piece made in the 1930s in gilt silver and marked JG&S 938.

There are many unknowns about these pieces in terms of construction and types once you get into the postwar years but that is one of the well-known and very interesting (if not common) types.

Much appreciated!

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Here is a selection of Hohenzollern House Orders in different sizes and classes.

All pieces are silver gilt, and a few different makers are shown here.

IMG_7532.jpg

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Hi Streptile,

 

Your Hohenzollern collection is amazing. Do you have any box to go with your cross ? Congrats

 

Christophe

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ID: 368   Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, Deruelle said:

Hi Streptile,

 

Your Hohenzollern collection is amazing. Do you have any box to go with your cross ? Congrats

 

Christophe

Thank you Christophe.

The gold Godet (JGS) and Wagner (W) Knights Crosses both have cases:

IMG_8132.jpg

IMG_8133.jpg

Some of the minis came in small white Godet boxes with gold trim.

I would love to find a case for the Komturkreuz but I think this will be impossible.

Edited by Streptile

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I´m searching for the date of the award for Arnd von Schmalz. Perhaps somebody can help?

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This has just  arrived in my  collection. Hope  you like it,  marked  938 W

Jim

 

DSCF6965.jpg

DSCF6968.jpg

DSCF6987.jpg

DSCF6982.jpg

DSCF6974.jpg

DSCF6976.jpg

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Jim,

Congrats on both pieces. These have got to be among the finest looking awards of the German states.

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Love to find a photo of Hauptmann d Landwehr Oscar Karl Wilhelm Gunther FAR 80 awarded for Cambrai 1918 or further details

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Are there differences between a cross from 1870 and one from 1914?

Here a detail of Generalleutnant a.D.  Karl Nehbel's bar

NEHBEL 0100002 BR.jpg

NEHBEL 0100003 BR.jpg

Here  STRUBBERG - OTTO JULIUS WILHELM MAXIMILIAN VON STRUBBERG (1821-1908)

STRUBBERG - OTTO JULIUS WILHELM MAXIMILIAN VON STRUBBERG (1821-1908) portrait BR.jpg

STRUBBERG - OTTO JULIUS WILHELM MAXIMILIAN VON STRUBBERG (1821-1908) bar.jpg

STRUBBERG - OTTO JULIUS WILHELM MAXIMILIAN VON STRUBBERG (1821-1908) RK.jpg

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