Roeland Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Hello,can anybody help me with information on the Austro-Hungarian order of St. Stephan (K?niglich Ungarischer Orden des Heiligen Stephan) created in 1764 and disbanned in 1918.does anybody know the sizes of this order, what is the size of a normal knight medal, a commander and a grand cross, or are they all the same?any other information on the orde also very welcome!thank you.kind regards,Roeland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roeland Posted August 10, 2007 Author Share Posted August 10, 2007 a picture from the medal: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunyadi Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 (edited) Hi - Very rare and havily copied! Thats the best piece of advice for these. As for dimensions:Royal Hungarian Order of St Stephen Cross, with Gems (1764) 30mm in diameter. Has a gold frame of the odrer with green jems inlayed for the arms and a central medalion with 'MT' in diamonds (Maria Teresia) and a Greek Cross between the letters. On the perimeter of the central medalion is inscribed PUBLICUM MERITORUM PRAEMIUM. (grade does not have the Hungarian Crown above the cross, but has a counter ring and diamond encrusted perpendicular suspension loop)Royal Hungarian Order of St Stephen Cross, Grand Cross (1764) 40mm in diameter. Central medalion is similar to the gems type but the reverse side of the central medalion is enscribed 'STO.-ST.RI.-AP' (SancTO STephano RegI APostolico). This grade also intirduces the use of the Hungarian crown as the suspension device - no dimensions given for the crown) From 1877 the diameter of the cross was increased to 45mm. This grade was worn in several manners: a- 104mm sash ribbon or a necklace chain device with 25 links made in the representation of MT and the Hungarian Crown. This grade also was awarded with a breast star that was 90-105mm in diameter. 8 pointed star formed in the fashion to represent that the star bursts are made from jems. Central medalion was 35-40 mm in daimeter and continued the MT theme.Royal Hungarian Order of St Stephen Cross, Star of the Grand Cross with War Decoration and Swords (date?) (awarded once - no reference as to who that I can find) 82mm diameter star w/ 35mm central medalion. Gold laurel wreath around the perimeter 62mm in diameter with two golden crossed swords.Royal Hungarian Order of St Stephen Cross, Commanders Cross (1764) 40mm in diameter with 52mm neck ribbon. The back of the Hungarin Crown device there is soldered a neck ribbon loop directly to the crown. After 1860 a round suspension loop is mounted verticaly at the top of the crown and then the neck ribbon loop is mounted through this.Royal Hungarian Order of St Stephen Cross, Small Cross (Knights Cross) (1764) 35mm in diameter with a 52mm wide straight ribbon after 1860 mounted on a tirfold ribbon 40mm in diameter on each side.Hope that helps Edited August 10, 2007 by hunyadi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol I Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Here is an image of a Grand Cross of St. Stephen (centre bottom) along other orders to have an idea about relative size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roeland Posted August 11, 2007 Author Share Posted August 11, 2007 Hello Carol I,thank you for the information, I couldn't find any good information on the internet, so I'm glad to hear from the expert, it sure is a great help.And I also must say, you have got very nice medals in your collection, my compliments!thank you!kind regards,Roeland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 Here is an image of a Grand Cross of St. Stephen (centre bottom) along other orders to have an idea about relative size.WHOSE are these?! An European's monarch?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Lang Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 (edited) Hello,I would like to remember that the Grand Cross star with KD and swords of the St. Stephen's Order was awarded to Archduke Joseph during WW1 from Emperor Charles I.More, it is interesting to note that the Order's Treasure re-issued older pieces, for example "adapting" the crown once attached to the sash into the later suspension type (they appear as hollow on the reverse, sometimes with traces of the old ribbon-loop).All the decorations of this order were officially awarded in gold only. Any gilt insignia should be considered as a privately purchased piece (or a later copy). Not forgetting that messrs. Rothe & Neffe of Vienna re-produced this order in its various classes until the late 70s in gold also, from the original dies.In my opinion all current copies can't deceive collectors, because of their poor quality.Best wishes,Enzo Edited August 11, 2007 by Elmar Lang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol I Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 And I also must say, you have got very nice medals in your collection, my compliments!I wish they were mine, but unfortunately they are in the top drawer of the chest of orders of King Oscar II of Sweden. I took the photo a couple of years ago when I was visiting the Royal Palace in Stockholm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol I Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 WHOSE are these?! An European's monarch?! King Oscar II of Sweden, see above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol I Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 By the way, can someone help me identify all the orders in the box?Top row:1. ?2. Order of the Legion of Honour (France)3. Order of the White Eagle (Russia)4. Order of St. Charles (Monaco)5. Order of the Norwegian Lion (Norway)Bottom row:1. Order of Fidelity (Baden) ?2. Order of the Black Eagle (Prussia)3. Order of St. Stephen (Austria)4. Order of St. Andrew (Russia)5. Order of St. Alexander Nevsky (Russia) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol I Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 Also on display there were these collars of Oscar II (sorry for the off-topic):Order of the Holy Annunciation (Savoy/Italy)Order of St. Olav (Norway)Order of St. Andrew (Russia)Order of the Tower and the Sword (Portugal)Order of the Royal Hohenzollern House (Prussia) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 By the way, can someone help me identify all the orders in the box?Top row:1. ?Bottom row:1. Order of Fidelity (Baden) ?5. Order of St. Alexander Nevsky (Russia) ?I'd say those you weren't sure are correct, and the first one is the Grand cross of Baden's Order Berthold I. which was awarded together with the House Order, but to be worn on the neck ... Great things, thanks for showing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megan Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Grand Cross insignia: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol I Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 I'd say those you weren't sure are correct, and the first one is the Grand cross of Baden's Order Berthold I. which was awarded together with the House Order, but to be worn on the neck ...Thank you very much for the reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roeland Posted August 16, 2007 Author Share Posted August 16, 2007 you keep amazing me Carol I with your collection!also a very nice one which you are displaying Megan.I decided not to buy a St. Stephen order.The seller was offering a commander cross, I asked him if it was real gold, but received no reply on my question (already placed a bid just viewing the pictures).I was outbidded.Then the seller offered me one as well for my bid, as he had more of them.It also wasn't real gold but metal with a gold layer on it.I found it quite strange that he had multiple and just offered them to the other bidders as well so I decided not to buy it.thanks for all the information!I'll be looking for another good one.kind regards,Roeland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol I Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 you keep amazing me Carol I with your collection!Sorry to disappoint you Roeland, but this is not my collection. Some years ago I took the two photos above of the top drawers of King Oscar's chest of orders that was on display in his palace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Lang Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Hello,I would like to remember again that the St. Stephen's Order is a very rare one and all original award pieces were in gold. Yes, there existed silver-plated pieces available for private purchase (besides the copies made by Rothe & Neffe after WW2 and the very poor copies now made in Hungary), but they were of the highest jeweller's quality.In my collection I have 5 surely original pieces only, of this order (no commander's cross though) and I feel myself quite lucky...Best wishes,Enzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunyadi Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 In my collection I have 5 surely original pieces only, of this order (no commander's cross though) and I feel myself quite lucky...Wow Enzo! That is quite impressive - any chance of sharing some photos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roeland Posted August 18, 2007 Author Share Posted August 18, 2007 Wow Enzo! That is quite impressive - any chance of sharing some photos?I'm quite exited to see them to if possible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 Hello GentlemenKnight of the St.Stephen ( not mine ) One of the most beautifully designed. Can any member give a time frame to this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Lang Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 Hello,I consider this piece (a "Kleinkreuz" or Knight's Cross) as very interesting: all the crosses with black enamelled inscriptions are of early manufacture; the crown looks like "closed" at its bottom (where the link to the cross is soldered) and this is a type made in the 1st half of the 19th Century. Pity that the picture is not sharp...EnzoHello GentlemenKnight of the St.Stephen ( not mine ) One of the most beautifully designed. Can any member give a time frame to this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipnos Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 Gentlements: Here you Have a St Stephen I own...probably is a Siver gilded, jeweler copy, but I think that that the Workmanship is very good.Some hints to find their origins...??RegardsMiguel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Gentlements: Here you Have a St Stephen I own...probably is a Siver gilded, jeweler copy, but I think that that the Workmanship is very good.Some hints to find their origins...??RegardsMiguel Hi MiguelThe quality is excellent, more detailed then majority of the post WWl gold examples floating around. If it is gold, there would be hallmarks on the ring & loop prior 1866.SincerelyBrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Hi MiguelThe quality is excellent, more detailed then majority of the post WWl gold examples floating around. If it is gold, there would be hallmarks on the ring & loop prior 1866.SincerelyBrianPost 1866 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Lang Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 Yes, the piece shown by Hipnos shows a very fine quality, although I'm not sure that it is made by Rothe & Neffe.In any case, it's a very well made copy, worth to "fill a gap" in any good collection... until an original piece would "emerge"!Best wishes,Enzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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