Bayoswede Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Hi all collectors!I am planning to buy a group with 1914-15 Star, Victory and War medal they are all named to an 01743 J.F Wood I am totally lost when its comes to researching British medals and I have been racing around internet to find something about this soldier but probably I have been looking on the wrong places..... Could anyone help me? I found my way to the National Archive but ther was only one 6619 J.F Wood ?? What do the numbers in front of the name means? I thought it would be a personal number? Thanks in advance !Christer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 What is the exact naming on each of the three medals? That is a very odd naming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayoswede Posted August 29, 2007 Author Share Posted August 29, 2007 What is the exact naming on each of the three medals? That is a very odd naming. Hi Ed, talk about lightning fast answer It says 01743 Pte J.F Wood A.S.C on the Victory and War medal On the star its hard to read by the sellers pics but it looks like T2-SR-01743 GVR J. F Wood A. S. C I am unsure if its a G or Q, D ?? I enclose a pic , maybe you can spot the right letters ! Christer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 OK, he is Army Service Corps, a Private (Pte) on the 1914-15 Star and Driver (DVR) on the other two. The 01743/T2-SR-01743 is his regimental number, but the "T2-SR"??? The ASC abbreviations will make strong men weep, and/or run to their reference materials.You should be able to find a card for him online from the National Archives at Kew, but I'll let others, more intimate with that process address (all the cards for Indians were thrown out years ago, so I am spared those sources ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Got him I think http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=1tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Yes, the first one is this man. Thanks, Tony, your fingers are quicker than mine. Getting the card will fill in more details (and checking the original rolls may add even more). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Yes, the first one is this man. Thanks, Tony, your fingers are quicker than mine. Getting the card will fill in more details (and checking the original rolls may add even more).Ed, it does look like SR on the reverse of the Star doesn't it. According to the PRO it should be SB but mistakes do happen.I have no idea about the prefix either, T2 is new army transport I think but SB for the ASC oe SR even???He isn't listed as killed.Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Ed, it does look like SR on the reverse of the Star doesn't it. According to the PRO it should be SB but mistakes do happen.I have no idea about the prefix either, T2 is new army transport I think but SB for the ASC oe SR even???He isn't listed as killed.TonyLooks like SR to me too. Will be interesting to see the card and see if we can translate these mystery letters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayoswede Posted August 29, 2007 Author Share Posted August 29, 2007 Yes, the first one is this man. Thanks, Tony, your fingers are quicker than mine. Getting the card will fill in more details (and checking the original rolls may add even more). Wow !! 1000 Thanks Tony and Ed !! I was just trying to look in the NA but you beat me to it Evening saved Christer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayoswede Posted August 29, 2007 Author Share Posted August 29, 2007 Wow !! 1000 Thanks Tony and Ed !! I was just trying to look in the NA but you beat me to it Evening saved Christer Hi again, I got the card and hopefullty I can load it up here Chriscard.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayoswede Posted August 29, 2007 Author Share Posted August 29, 2007 Hi again, I got the card and hopefullty I can load it up here ChrisNow I can see some more info about this WWI driver, one thing that puzzles me is the 4th entry? Hes got BWM VictM Star and ? Maybe I have to take a vacation and go to England? Kew is probably a nice place in December? Christer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Much to puzzle out here . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 (edited) This may or may not be correct, but I'm a member of the Great War Forum also which has a lot of people who are into the ASC and it's prefixes and taking your mans regimental number T2/SR/01743, it possibly means thisT2 = Horse Transport(2nd New Army).SR - Strapper Remounts.01743 = Regimental number.Noted on your downloaded MIC that the initials had been changed from SB to SR, and apparently 'S' was a trade called 'Strapper' and 'R' was 'Remounts' within the ASC.On a similar note I picked up some paperwork today for an ASC man whose number was TS/3934 and this means Horse Transport(T) Strapper(S). On one piece of paperwork it does actually say his civilian trade is 'strapper'.Graham. Edited August 29, 2007 by Graham Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christerd Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Thank you Graham, I have been collecting Russian, Mongolian, german , bulgarian and Finnish orders/medals and always having nightmares trying to read certificates, and now a new world opens for me. wht didn?t I start collecting British medals 25 years ago But even now when I can read the language I still confused, I understand Remounts was keeping/handling the horses used in A.S.C but what do a Starpper do? I can?t find the word in any lexicon.And one more thing about the MIC , could he been awarded a Silver War Badge?Thank everyone for your help to a novise collectorChrister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Christer,I'm as wise as you are as to what a 'strapper' did, but it was classed as a trade in both the Army and civvy street.The British and Empire Silver War Badges are covered within this Forum here;-http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=13142.I also posted a couple of certificates which were presented with the badges, which were given for 'Services Rendered', not specifically for wounds or overseas service. They would more likely be issued to a man who was discharged under Kings Regulations Paragraph 392(xvi) being "no longer physically fit for war service".So if he wasn't discharged under KR's 392(xvi) then it's unlikely he would get one.Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev in Deva Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Gentlemen, I believe a "strapper" would have been connectedto leather harness making, for use with supply waggons.But, stand open to correction.Kevin in Deva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Gentlemen, I believe a "strapper" would have been connectedto leather harness making, for use with supply waggons.But, stand open to correction.Kevin in Deva That would be my GUESS (too?) Kevin, but . . . ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Johnson Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 A quick search indicates that a strapper is a junior stablehand. "Strapping" is also a form of horse grooming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leigh kitchen Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 (edited) T2SR prefix - "Horse Transport Special Reserve" - enlisted for Kitcheners New Armies.There was also a T1SR prefix, so presumably refering to Kitchener 1 & Kitchener 2 Armies.Looking at his units perhaps transferred from ASC to infantry (still at his ASC pay which would be quite a bit above his other infantry colleagues pay) because of a need for infantry, the n Labour Corps so medically down graded due to illness, injury or wounds?The 4th medal entry" refers to a "substitute duplicate" issue of the 15 Star which was then for some reason returned, hence the word "deleted" meaning deleted from the medal roll. Howard Williamsons book "The Collector & Researchers Guide to The Great War" Volume 1, page 389 has a photo of a MIC with similar entry, & in the same persons handwriting. Also on the card is an entry for "1915 Star retd( returned) CRV (Certified Receipt Voucher) 143/S dt (dated?) 16.5.23" & below it a feference to "15 Star issd" (issued), this entry includes "LC" which refers to Labour Corps?The Rifle Bde number - the 8th Bn Rifle Bde had a S prefix, but I dont know if that's relevant to this mans entry - I notice that there is a JF Wood listed on the CWGC site (obviously not this man) who had a S prefix 5 digit number & was in the 1st Bn Rifle Bde. Edited September 5, 2007 by leigh kitchen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 A very plausible career reconstruction, Leigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leigh kitchen Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 (edited) It seems rather strange that following the entry relating to the 15 Star being returned 16.5.23 there is another entry stating that a 15 Star was issued to the applicant 14.6.23.So he was issued the Star, then a replacement was issued & returned & within a few weeks another Star is issued?There's no reference to a Star being returned for correction or replacement because of a mistake in naming, so perhaps he lost or never received his first issue Star, had moved or was otherwise unable to take receipt of his duplicate issue & then applied again & was issued a Star?The Labour Corps had its own Records Office, the LC/ prefix codes relate to that office - being his last unit the Labour Corps held his final records although this isn't always the case. The LC prefix appears on the Medal roll reference for the duplicate Star & the subsequent entries refering to the Star.The M/1C medals roll reference for the 15 Star - "M" was used as a the prefix of the Winchester Records Office, so it's the prefix used for medal roll references for the Rifle Bde & KRRC for the award of BWM & VM. Was his original Star issued with the Rifle Bde wrongly given as his unit & returned for correction to ASC?The Pay Office for the ASC was "THe Huts, Woolwich", (Cambridge Barracks, Woolwich for the ASC MT), the Records Office was at Woolwich Dockyard.The Rifle Brigade Pay Office & Records Office was at Winchester for regular battaalions, the TF battalions Pay Office was London District, Records Office 4, London Wall Buildings, London EC2.The Labour Corps Pay Office & Records Office were at Nottingham.A check of Soldiers Died may help indicate which battalion of the Rifle Bde he was in by comparing his number with those of fatalities. Edited September 6, 2007 by leigh kitchen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leigh kitchen Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 (edited) Graham Stewart Quote:This may or may not be correct, but I'm a member of the Great War Forum also which has a lot of people who are into the ASC and it's prefixes and taking your mans regimental number T2/SR/01743, it possibly means thisT2 = Horse Transport(2nd New Army).SR - Strapper Remounts.01743 = Regimental number.Noted on your downloaded MIC that the initials had been changed from SB to SR, and apparently 'S' was a trade called 'Strapper' and 'R' was 'Remounts' within the ASC.On a similar note I picked up some paperwork today for an ASC man whose number was TS/3934 and this means Horse Transport(T) Strapper(S). On one piece of paperwork it does actually say his civilian trade is 'strapper'.Graham. This post has been edited by Graham Stewart: Aug 30 2007, 00:08 TS/3934 ? the TS means that this man was Transport Specials (Labour) (Special Enlistment)S as an ASC prefix or first letter in a prefix indicates Supply.R prefix is RemountsSR does?nt appear together as a prefix but as part of prefix S1SR & S2SR ? Supply Enlisted Reserve for New Armies 1 & 2.From 20/11/16 the 2 & the 4 were dropped from the T2, S4 etc of the New Army Horse Transport (T) & Supply (S) numbers leaving just the letter T or S, I don?t know if this applied to the 1st & 3rd New Army numbers.The prefix for Strapper would appear not as a prefix to a serial number but before the name on a medal, to indicate ?trade?, in the same way for example that DVR appears for DriverAs far as I?m aware there are no uses of S or R in this way & I can?t find ?Strapper? as a military trade, except for a reference on this site..http://www.sole.org.uk/ww1army.htm& another on this one - "Michael Lennon ASC RTS/2412 WO 372/12" (RS & RTS being Remount Specials prefixes).http://users.skynet.be/ken.lennan/acrobat/olen2pd.pdf Edited September 6, 2007 by leigh kitchen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley1965 Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 (edited) Hello Graham,What is the link to the Great War Forum? Doc Edited September 6, 2007 by Riley1965 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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