Troy Tempest Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 (edited) Was the correct name for the Hindenburg Cross the Ehrenkreuz für Frontkampfer? I want to start a new section on my site and also to start a makers mark database here for the HK's, (I have 27 different makers so far) but I'm not sure as to the proper name of the award? I'm guessing the English translation for that is Honour Cross for Combatants or something similar? Also, just to push my luck, could anyone help me with the correct German names for the three different classes? Mit Schwerten für (combatants), Ohne Schwerten für (non-combatants) Ohne Schwerten für (widows?). Forgive my clumsly attempts at German! I have 23 swords, 2 no swords and 2 widows so far, and growing! Edited December 28, 2012 by Troy Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul wood Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Was the correct name for the Hindenburg Cross the Ehrenkreuz f?r Frontkampfer? I want to start a new section on my site and also to start a makers mark database here for the HK's, (I have 27 different makers so far) but I'm not sure as to the proper name of the award? I'm guessing the English translation for that is Honour Cross for Combatants or something similar? Also, just to push my luck, could anyone help me with the correct German names for the three different classes? Mit Schwerten f?r (combatants), Ohne Schwerten f?r (non-combatants) Ohne Schwerten f?r (widows?). Forgive my clumsly attempts at German! I have 23 swords, 2 no swords and 2 widows so far, and growing!Weltskreig Ehrenkreuz (World War Honour Cross)Fur Frontkampfer (Combatants) with swordsFur Kriegsteilnehmer (Non Combatants) without swords, light bronzeFur Hinterbliebene (War Widows) without swords, dark bronze.A nice and relatively inexpensive series to collect with loads of different makers, Urkunde (bestowal documents) and packets of issue for these crosses are quite plentiful and inexpensive, I would go for some of those, I do not know how many variants there are (I'm sure someone on this forum has a good idea) but it is a collecting field which should keep you out of mischief for a while.Hope this helps, All the best,Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex K Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Hi Troy, I believe the widow's version is "Ehrenkreuz fur Elten" or so it says on the award doc that came with my crossregardsAlex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev in Deva Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Hi Troy, I believe the widow's version is "Ehrenkreuz fur Elten" or so it says on the award doc that came with my crossregardsAlexAlex your's would more correctly translate as "Honour Cross for Parents", Elten = Elders, a widow was a "Witwe" in German.I have heard it commonly refered to as the "Honour Cross for those left behind."Kevin in Deva. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Well, to make it 100% proper, you'll need a Native speaker, I fear ... The topic is "Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges 1914-1918", and the three versions (actually not "classes") are:- "Ehrenkreuz f?r Frontk?mpfer";- "Ehrenkreuz f?r Kriegsteilnehmer";- "Ehrenkreuz f?r Witwen und Eltern".The last one was awarded to the soldier's parents or(!) to his widow, so neither "Elternkreuz" nor "Witwenkreuz" is the right term, as it may be the one or the ohter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex K Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Alex your's would more correctly translate as "Honour Cross for Parents", Elten = Elders, a widow was a "Witwe" in German.I have heard it commonly refered to as the "Honour Cross for those left behind."Kevin in Deva. Hi kevin, you may well be right, my german ain't what it should be. I do have a cross for the next of Kin with the award document,on it, it does say Fur Elten, so I assume that it may well have gone to parents rather than widow.thanks for the correction.regardsAlex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedytop Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Hi,the complete name for the 3rd version is:Ehrenkreuz f?r die Witwen und Eltern gefallener, an den Folgen von Verwundung oder in Gefangenschaft verstorbener oder verschollener Kriegsteilnehmer.On the documents you can only find:Ehrenkreuz f?r Frontk?mpferEhrenkreuz f?r KriegsteilnehmerEhrenkreuz f?r WitwenEhrenkreuz f?r ElternRegardsUwe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Uwe, these two are very nice examples, thanks. Though I wonder why Nimmergut calls them not "Ehrenkreuz f?r ... " but "Ehrenzeichen ... " ... Well, actually I don't wonder anymore ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Tempest Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 (edited) Thanks everybody! Uwe, this must be the second longest award name ever!Ehrenkreuz für die Witwen und Eltern gefallener, an den Folgen von Verwundung oder in Gefangenschaft verstorbener oder verschollener Kriegsteilnehmer. What does that mean in English please? Edited December 28, 2012 by Troy Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedytop Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Hi Troy,rough translation:Honour cross for widows and parents of soldiers killed in action, late as a result of wounds or late in captivity or lost/missing combatants.RegardsUwe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin Burr Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 These are a great item to collect and I have now made them the main focus of my collecting. So far I have around 60 of the crosses over the three versions. To my mind, it's the non coms and widows crosses that I think look the best. So far I have managed to establish about 160 different maker marks, eliminating mis-reads and verifying by sight the majority of them. My pride and joy are three cassed examples, two in the orange/red cases and another in the tortoiseshell effect case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 These are a great item to collect and I have now made them the main focus of my collecting. So far I have around 60 of the crosses over the three versions. To my mind, it's the non coms and widows crosses that I think look the best. So far I have managed to establish about 160 different maker marks, eliminating mis-reads and verifying by sight the majority of them. My pride and joy are three cassed examples, two in the orange/red cases and another in the tortoiseshell effect case.I agree! With the great variety of maker marks, I can definitely see this as a very rewarding area for focus!Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Tempest Posted October 8, 2007 Author Share Posted October 8, 2007 These are a great item to collect and I have now made them the main focus of my collecting. So far I have around 60 of the crosses over the three versions.Alright Martin - the race is on! Down 60-27, can the pride of Sydney come back from behind and catch the pride of Essex? Game on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin Burr Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Alright Martin - the race is on! Down 60-27, can the pride of Sydney come back from behind and catch the pride of Essex? Game on!Current tally now Troy is over 100 !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Tempest Posted December 30, 2007 Author Share Posted December 30, 2007 The lad from sunny Sydney has just cracked 40! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 The lad from sunny Sydney has just cracked 40! Congrats! Are you collecting a certain type? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 And of course the autographs on the award documents are often VERY interesting. In the remarried-widow's cross Urkunde that Uwe shows above (I was not aware that a remarried-widow COULD wear an award from a PREVIOUS husband! )Police President of Wandsbek "Hinkler" wasPaul Hinkler. Born 1893, member of the NSDAP since 1922. Gauleiter of Halle-Merseburg 1926-31. Police President of Wandsbek since 1933. Member of the Reichstag since 1936. Transferred as Police President to Wuppertal just before the war in 1939 and retired from there in 1943 (? why .... ) with the nominal rank of SA- Gruppenf?hrer.Aside from the endless varieties of local stamps and issuing authorities, it would also be fun to collect all 4 types of documents issued by the same authority with the same signatures.The award documents are far more interesting than the Crosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Documents: Theme= The 3 Hanseatic CitiesBREMEN(WWI Reserve Officer, about to transfer from the LaPo back to the Wehrmacht as an educational Beamter)HAMBURG(survived the "Little Big Horn" style extermination of his regiment in 1917)L?BECK(already in the secretly re-arming undeclared Wehrmacht) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Not thrilling enough? How about Theme = War Criminal-To-Be Signs For A Victim Of The Nazi Regime?Here we have the autograph of the 7th senior Police General in Germany (1941)/ 99th senior (1942)/113th senior (1944)SS General?Otto von Oelhafen (1886-19??) served in the Bavarian Field Artillery from 1905, transferred to the Bavarian Landespolizei, chose not to rejoin the army with the mass of his colleagues, and went into Schutzpolizei and joint SS service.Joined the Nazi Party only when mandated to keep his job, 1 May 1937 # 4,736,616 but had no problems hitching up in the SS as well (#327,493)Polizei Generalmajor 6.10.40SS Gruppenf?hrer und Polizei-Generalleutnant 12.12.41Earned Bavarian Military Merit Order 4th Class X, both Iron Crosses, and a Wound Badge in WW1. Had his SS Sword before going off to Russia, where he earned his Totenkopf ring and both classes of the KVK with Xs as Chief of the Order Police in occupied Rovno (1942). Ended the war on the staff of SS Region Bohemia-Moravia. Married, with 2 Aryan children (amazing what gets included in "Rank" Lists).All rather ironic, since First World War Reserve officer and senior Bavarian civil servant Lautenschlager had just been dumped out of his job for crossing the Nazis either politically or on some section of the Nuremberg Laws-- though that didn't keep him from being called up and promoted as a Reserve officer in the Second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Or how about Theme: So Much For Vaunted German Efficiency?made out INCORRECTLY, the indignant amputee retired Oberstleutnant filled in his correct name and signed and dated it HIMSELF. It was then returned-- and the slobs just scribbled in ANOTHER INCORRECT name on the spoiled document and sent it back again ...misreading his perfectly legible "Alois" as "Hans" (even Germans could not read Sutterlin ) Here, BTW, is his application for said Hindenburg Cross:No problems THERE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabnus Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 nice pictures, ill post a few hindenburg documents later tonight too!great set of the three hanseaten cities btw!Regards,Gaston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Yup, Theme- From Reichshauptstadt to Kleindorf(Disabled WW1 veteran, senior civil servant blocks from the Brandenburg Gate-- and later WW2 air raid hero)(Mayor of a small town whose only lasting claim to "fame" was using his Nazi Party connections to save the statue of the local writer from being hauled off in a WW2 scrap drive)The variety of stamps-- printed, rubber stamped, embossed, is never ending. And you never know whose autograph you'll find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabnus Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 here are a few of mine, pictures taken in a dark room with terrible light and some framed, so excuse the poor quality...First another for the hanseaten theme, stadt Bremen, signed by a senator (?): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabnus Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 another for the same theme, stadt Hamburg, cross for parents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabnus Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Another one, for the theme: widowsI like the stamp on this one, often these awards are mistaken for WWI, with a stamp like this you can't miss the period this medal was given out: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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