Soviet Partial Hero Star Group?

[James T]

I purchased this small group years ago, that is suppose to have been Sargent Major Petr Popov of the 62nd Guards Cavalry Division before he was awarded the Hero Star. The order booklet list the date of 1946 listing the medals shown. If I understand this correctly the 1943 date would be the actual award period for the medals and the 1946 date would be the date of the replacement book?

I do not have a listing of who was awarded the Hero Star so mabe the whole story is just that. It just seems strange that from 1943 to 1946 he had not been awarded the Hero Star, and it came later?

Any help on this would be appreciated.

Regards

Jim

[James T]

Order Booklet

[Guest Rick Research]

I don't have that book either.

The privileges (when there were any) started in December 1943, so his Valor Medal 524,371 was bestowed in November 1943. That tallies with known serial numbers.

His Red Star is from a range that might have been awarded betwween December 1943 and November 1944, and his OPW2 from a range awarded between 1945 and 1947.

The Orders Book was filled out on (obscured--cannot read) October 1946, replacing Temporary Certificates. Typical delay in paperwork.

It would seem HIGHLY unlikely to me that a late-Gold Star recipient would NOT have had that and the accompanying Lenin entered with the rest of his WW2 decorations.

[matteti]

Hello James T.

Can you please post the page showing the full name of the awards recipient?

There is effectively a Pietr Dmitrievich Popov who earned a Hero Star medal (# 3017) together with an Order of Lenin on Janyary 15, 1944. He was born in 1895 and died in 1956. He was effectively a sergeant in the 62th Guards Cavalry Regiment, 16th Guards Chernihivsky Cavalry division.

He would have received an award (bravery medal?l) for actions in September 21, 1943 in Chernihiv region, Ukraine.

Other than the Order of Lenin and Gold Star Medal of HSU, he was awarded the OPW 2nd class and order fo the Red Star, plus medals.

Here is a photo of him.

Now, is that guy the same as your recipient, we cannot know for sure without seeing the order book page with full name or even without researching your awards. But as mentionned Rick Research, I would think that the HSU and Lenin orders (earned in 1944) would certainly show in the award listed in the order book. That is weird... and makes me think this order book is not his.

Edited December 14, 2007 by matteti

[James T]

Page with full name.

Jim

[matteti]

Page with full name.

Jim

Thanks for posting the page. That's the exact same name!

I must admit that I am puzzled and everything looks ok from my point of view... only I still wonder why we don't see awards from 1944 in a 1946 order book.

[Bryan]

There must be more than one Pietr Dmitrievich Popov.

[matteti]

There must be more than one Pietr Dmitrievich Popov.

Allo Bryan!

That's why I didn't say that's the same guy. We can not be sure 100%, but that's interesting that the Pietr HSU only received OPW 2nd class and ORS (without considering the HSU and Lenin) and that is also matching this guy's booklet... I think only research can give a 100% sure answer.

Etienne

[Guest Rick Research]

Somewhere in the back pages one of Gerd's awards that I translated had two identically named men whose records were copied at the Archives without (apparently) the researcher noticing. The freaky thing is that they were both born in the very same "blink of an eye" place-- which had a name like "Mile Marker 983" on the Trans-Siberian railway

... but they were born there YEARS apart.

That is what has happened here. Out of all the millions and millions of Soviet veterans, this is coincidentally somebody with the same name. The key to research here, when it is done, is NOT to rely on the name-- but on the serial number of the Orders Book and the awards serial numbers.

[James T]

Thanks for your interest and comments it sounds like this set is original but to a different guy. My next question is, is it worth having the research done?

Its a nice complete set but it does lose some glamour without being to an HS recipient.

Thanks

Jim

[Ferdinand]

I'd say that getting an answer to this question is definately worth the $40 for the research.

[James T]

Hi Ferdinand

Obviously there must be someone else that is reasonable in the research of the Soviet awards, please forward their email address to me and I will have all the medals researched.

Regards

Jim

[matteti]

Hi Ferdinand

Obviously there must be someone else that is reasonable in the research of the Soviet awards, please forward their email address to me and I will have all the medals researched.

Regards

Jim

Additionally to the Pietr Dmitrievich that is the Hero of Soviet Union born in 1896, I also found 4 more Pietr Dmitrievich Popov that participated in the GPW... so James's group my be from one of them.

Russia / Central District / Voronezh Region

Popov Petr Dmitrievich

b. 22.03.1925

Russia / Siberia District / Altay Territory

Popov Petr Dmitrievich

b. 27.07.1924

Russia / South District / Rostov Region

Popov Petr Dmitrievich

b. 05.07.1913

Russia / Urals District / Chelyabinsk Region

Popov Petr Dmitrievich

b. 05.08.1926

[Egorka]

Hello. 10 years have passed... Is there any information on the status of these awards?

Edited July 28, 2017 by Egorka

[slava1stclass]

On ‎12‎/‎13‎/‎2007 at 20:54, James T said:

I purchased this small group years ago, that is suppose to have been Sargent Major Petr Popov of the 62nd Guards Cavalry Division before he was awarded the Hero Star. The order booklet list the date of 1946 listing the medals shown. If I understand this correctly the 1943 date would be the actual award period for the medals and the 1946 date would be the date of the replacement book?

I do not have a listing of who was awarded the Hero Star so mabe the whole story is just that. It just seems strange that from 1943 to 1946 he had not been awarded the Hero Star, and it came later?

Any help on this would be appreciated.

Regards

Jim

Jim/Gents,

  Availing myself of the podvignaroda.ru site (which was not available in 2007), here is what I can confirm from the Russian MOD archives:

1) The only Попов, Пётр Дмитриевич who earned these three specific awards was a HSU Guards Sergeant Major assigned to the 62nd Guards Cavalry Regiment, 16th Guards Cavalry Division.  He was born in 1895.

2) The award dates for his awards were:

HSU title (with Gold Star Medal and Order of Lenin) - 15 January 1944 (as a Guards Sergeant)

OPWII - 15 June 1945 (as a Guards Sergeant Major)

ORS - 23 January 1944 (as a Guards Sergeant)

BM - 25 September 1943 (as a Guards Junior Sergeant - his year of birth was incorrectly recorded as 1905 when the archives set up the digital database.  1895 (very blurry) is in fact recorded on the award Ukaz) 

3) The award recommendation for his final award - the OPWII - lists his HSU title, his ORS and his BM with all the Ukaz dates matching those in 2) above.  A Medal for the Defense of Stalingrad is also listed.

  You would need to order an awards record card (ARC) from one of the forum members who specializes in that area.  I have personally used the service which forum member "Ferdinand" (see post #11 this thread) offers and have been very well pleased. 

  In receiving the ARC, you'll be able to confirm whether the serial numbers of the awards you own match those awarded to HSU Guards Sergeant Major Пётр Дмитриевич Попов.  The ARC may also list the serial number present on the Ordenskaya Knizhka (award booklet) you possess with this group.

Regards,

slava1stclass