demir Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 TWM ribbons were worn that way sometimes. Are you on Demir's TWM facebook (in turkish) page? Hi, if you are interested in the TWM and the Ottoman Medals you can check these pages, they are in Turkish but we always translate if you ask. for Ottoman medals, uniforms etc: https://www.facebook.com/groups/osmanlimadalyalari/ TWM: https://www.facebook.com/groups/harpmadalyasi/ Korean war: https://www.facebook.com/groups/koremadalyasi/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/koresavasi/ Ottoman Military History: https://www.facebook.com/groups/420944871281282/ Regards Demir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 I'm sorry but any speculations are out of place for me! What counts for me are facts ..... Why is only the talk of the EK and TWM? What about, for example, the Red Cross Medal? Hi, My thought ... if this was a photo of a man... would anyone even ask what it was? I really dont think that there were just 4 Women who got the EK. I cannot find the source that makes that claim, or if the original author said "there were 4 women" or "these 4 woman are known to have the EK..." We are talking an army of millions with a few hundred generals who interprated the rules as they understood them to be... a Divisional commander in the Balkans, in the East, etc. could have quite easily awarded the EK at a field hospital... and the only written record would/could have been in the documents of that field hospital. it is possible that a few hundred women recieved the EK. Maybe the new German book on the EK coming out next year will have something on this. Apparently he used a lot of archival research. Best Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 For instance... if you saw this... would we assume he is wearing a TWM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulsterman Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 Nope- the DRK MEN got EK2s as well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 We are talking an army of millions with a few hundred generals who interprated the rules as they understood them to be... a Divisional commander in the Balkans, in the East, etc. could have quite easily awarded the EK at a field hospital... and the only written record would/could have been in the documents of that field hospital. it is possible that a few hundred women recieved the EK. The thing is it was banned quite quickly by the Kaiser, still in autummn 1914. And don't forget all (or most?) of these women awarded got articles in newspapers and so... it was the early days of the war, when (almsot) all were in that famous war fever. And the newspapers have been looked through over decades for stuff like this. ;o) I don't think it were hundereds of women. It may be possible it was more than four. Maybe five, six or seven... but hardly imaginable it was more than a dozen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 The thing is it was banned quite quickly by the Kaiser, still in autummn 1914. I dont want to seem like a last ditch fighter here... but do we have the official decree, or period mention of it being banned? Best Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Once again Red Cross, would the thought cross anyones mind that these could be anything but an EK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I dont want to seem like a last ditch fighter here... but do we have the official decree, or period mention of it being banned? Best Chris Nimmergut (in his "Handbuch") refers to Heyde, but doesn't give primary sources... do you have the book/the pages dealing with the ladies? In case you don't, drop me a line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Hi Sascha, could you email them? There are so many things in the hobby that get passed from book to book without being questioned muchos grazias! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Sent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Sent! Thanks, It is an interesting article, but as he says, The 4 women in the Photographs are simply 4 documented cases, he then goes on to mention 2 other women Karoline Bührer and Anna Scheermann who also recieved it. All these cases are simply listed because they were found in newspaper articles. If these 4 pictured woman were simply by coincidence on the same page of the Berliner tagesblatt in January 1915, it is simply a nice page to have found, and not a proof of numbers. A nurse at the front in Russia 1915, caught up in the movement of millions of people may have been a long way from reporters and newspapers. He further goes on to say, that 3 of the 4 women pictured actually were awarded the cross AFTER Wilhelm ii issued the decree forbidding it. As they were awards at the front the Decrees did not filter down as they should. It is mentioned in numerous sources, in fact on the same page in Nimmergut, that the Chef des Militärkabinett spend the whole war chasing down Armee- and General- Kommandos trying to enforce the rules for awarding the EK and that all throughout the war awards were made to people who theoretically should not get one.. Methinks the theme "Woman and the WW1 EK... " is long noch nicht ausgelutscht... I dont only say that because of the photo posted, am not desperately trying to proove it is an EK2... simply think this theme is an interesting one that needs attention... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Obviously not an awardee.... but an interesting Pic anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulsterman Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 OK, just to keep the list up to date... I have found 2 more... Source 1 had ... Frieda Gessert Elfriede Scherhaus Sophie Gräfin zu Toerring-Jettenbach Lonny Hertha von Versen Source 2 had... Karoline Bührer Anna Scheermann Source 3 ...I have found 2 more in the book "Unser Eisernes Kreuz" Schwester Aust, who recieved it along with a personal congratulations from the Oberbehelshaber des Ostheeres GFM v. Hindenburg, so this puts it in December 1914 or later (She also later recieved a Rettungsmedaille) Schwester Frida Schlenker, date unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deutschritter Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 On 21/03/2008 at 01:50, Naxos said: A total of four women were awarded the Iron Cross during WWI: Frieda Gessert, Elfriede Scherhaus, geb. Buchholz, Sophie Gr?fin zu T?rring-Jetterbach und Lonny Hertha von Versen. There was one American born woman that was awarded the Iron Cross second class in 1870. Her name was Agnes Leclerq Joy (*1840 in Franklin, Vermont, USA; +1912 in Karlsruhe). Agnes was a distant relative to Abraham Lincoln (and probably Rick L Research) Hardy Agnes Prinzessin zu Salm-Salm, geboren Agnes Elisabeth „Winona“ Leclerq Joy ... she also received the Verdienstkreuz für Frauen und Jungfrauen 1871. 1867: San-Carlos-Orden, Grand Cordon (Sonderstufe des Großkreuzes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackcowboyBS Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 Thanks Gentlemen, for bringing up this old thread again, it fits very well to my own post from yesterdays find. Maybe an admin could merge these posts together, so that we have one post dealing with this questions. I won't mind, if my posting is merged into this one. with Dr. Reimer and the belgian nurse Marthe Mathilde Cnockaert we have gotten two new candidates for a woman being awarded with the IC2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxos Posted July 23, 2023 Author Share Posted July 23, 2023 I found the accounts of E. Scherhans and L. von Versen - regarding their Iron Cross award, written in their own words (btw, in 1936 both got also awarded the Hindenburg Cross with swords). If you are still interested, I will post the accounts here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 On 12/11/2013 at 22:47, Chris Boonzaier said: Obviously not an awardee.... but an interesting Pic anyway... Nice photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 On 12/11/2013 at 22:47, Chris Boonzaier said: Obviously not an awardee.... but an interesting Pic anyway... Very interesting 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashley58 Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 Could this is a wife / girlfriend / sister / lover wearing the cross of a fallen soldier ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 On 31/07/2023 at 03:08, ashley58 said: Could this is a wife / girlfriend / sister / lover wearing the cross of a fallen soldier ? Yes, it could be It could explain the cross on a chain as a patriotic item not on a ladies ribbon as an awardee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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